# Why is Ticket Scalping Illegal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 22, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382 "2005-06-22T16:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/81 "2005-06-24T01:14:06Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Econ 101: > > **Rampant scalping of any event is a market signal that the commodity is underpriced.** If tickets were sold on a more auction-like basis from the official source, there would be less incentive for scalping. That would be true if concert promoters are in the business of selling concert tickets. However, they are not, they’re in the business of selling publicity. Notice how all the popular nightclubs have lines wrapping around the corner? Obviously that means the cover charge is underpriced and that the club should raise costs to reach equilibrium right? Wrong, if you actually look inside the club, it’s probably only 1/2 full. What the club is trying to sell is the image as a happening place in which everyone wants to get in. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/82 "2005-06-24T01:44:42Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > :rolleyes: > > So that’s why the Rolling Stones go on tour! Not to make money (which they would only squander on useless charities anyway) but just to please their loyal fans! Hence one of the words I put in the post: _some_. Notice how I made no reference to the Rolling Stones, nor do I doubt their motives of making as much money as humanly possible. _some_ bands. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/83 "2005-06-24T03:12:44Z")
Well, still, this is not really a discussion of rock bands (nor of security at British football matches). Many, many locales prohibit scalping. While organized scalping may (or may not) be a pain in the butt, why is it illegal to sell tickets (for a profit) generallY? Or to take the contra-, why is such a practice not illegal in most places? It seems the world is split into pro- and anti- scalper regions. I wonder why. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/84 "2005-06-24T06:28:03Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Well, still, this is not really a discussion of rock bands (nor of security at British football matches). Many, many locales prohibit scalping. While organized scalping may (or may not) be a pain in the butt, why is it illegal to sell tickets (for a profit) generallY? > > Or to take the contra-, why is such a practice not illegal in most places? It seems the world is split into pro- and anti- scalper regions. I wonder why. Like I said, Paul, read Shalmanese’s first post and you will have your answer. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/85 "2005-06-24T06:30:04Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > What kind of restriction? Tell the season ticket holders that if they get sick or can’t attend a playoff game for other reasons, they can’s sell their tickets? The season ticket holders throw away their money, and someone misses the game as the seat sits empty? > Some people take their sports _far_ too seriously. Isn’t going to the game supposed to be _fun_? When we attend hockey games around here, people have shirts from both teams, and often other teams that aren’t even playing that day. The players may get in fights, but the fans don’t. I think I’ll be studiously avoiding football games when I’m in Europe. You need to read “Fever Pitch” by Nick Hornby. He describes how being a fan (a voluntary activity, you would think) essentially makes him anxious and miserable. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/86 "2005-06-24T06:46:27Z")
I did read Shalmanese’s first post, and excuse me for sounding nasty, I mean this sincerely, I do not agree. I find it hard to grasp that prohibiting after-market sales is a marketing device to ensure the right demographics are in the audience. Does anyone have a cite for this practice? If this were the case, surely promoters in scalping-legal locals would use some sort of steps (like names on tickets) to prevent resale. Further, I have a hard time grasping the idea that promoters were so savvy in 1890-something. Yet, we have a cite that scalping was illegal in at least some places Way Back When. I am familiar with ‘yield management’ in the airline industry, this is why some tickets are cheaper than others. But I have never before heard the theory that concert promoters frown on resale as a means of controlling who is in the crowd. For me to believe it, I would require (in a very polite and humble way) a cite. Most things I can grasp, but I am really having a time trying to get my head around this. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/87 "2005-06-24T09:11:00Z")
OK, here’s a thought I’ve had for why it was banned Way Back When - to close a simple tax dodge: Promoter expects to be able to sell his tickets at $10. Instead, he advertises tickets at, $2 (no idea what that’s worth in 1890 money, but you get the idea). A large portion of the tickets get ‘sold’ to the promoter’s assistants. They sell the tickets on the street for as much as they can make (the artificial shortage driving up demand), taking a 10% cut for themselves and returning the rest to the promoter as cash, which the taxman doesn’t know about. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/88 "2005-06-24T09:26:49Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > That would be true if concert promoters are in the business of selling concert tickets. However, they are not, they’re in the business of selling publicity In a way though, hearing that the price of a ticket is soaring after resale could be seen as publicity. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/89 "2005-06-24T09:38:39Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > Am I the only one annoyed at Live8 for not selling the tickets at the highest possible price in order to make the most possible money for charity? I feel when you are engaged in a charity fund rasing activity it is up to you to make the most money possible for that charity. The live8 tickets are distributed to winners of a lottery; entry to the lottery is made by SMS text message, at a cost of £1.50 per try… ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/90 "2005-06-24T10:56:53Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > I did read Shalmanese’s first post, and excuse me for sounding nasty, I mean this sincerely, I do not agree. > > I find it hard to grasp that prohibiting after-market sales is a marketing device to ensure the right demographics are in the audience. Does anyone have a cite for this practice? If this were the case, surely promoters in scalping-legal locals would use some sort of steps (like names on tickets) to prevent resale. Further, I have a hard time grasping the idea that promoters were so savvy in 1890-something. Yet, we have a cite that scalping was illegal in at least some places Way Back When. > > I am familiar with ‘yield management’ in the airline industry, this is why some tickets are cheaper than others. But I have never before heard the theory that concert promoters frown on resale as a means of controlling who is in the crowd. > > For me to believe it, I would require (in a very polite and humble way) a cite. > > Most things I can grasp, but I am really having a time trying to get my head around this. I think that if there is a need for an explanation it is the other way round: if you say that promoters _are not_ trying to spread tickets around evenly, then why don’t they auction them off? Why do they sell tickets at a price much much less than what they could sell them for (scalper prices being the proof of this)? It would be perfectly easy to do. There are practical problems with names on tickets. It’s an administrative nightmare. There’s nothing wrong with buying five or ten tickets for yourself and your friends. Imagine if you had to give all those names to the sellers in order to buy? What happens when Joe drops out so you ask Kevin along? Imagine the wait at the ticket gate as 30,000 ID’s have to be individually hand checked. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/91 "2005-06-24T11:02:17Z")
Another though as to why promoters don’t like touting: they have no control over how the tickets are being sold. For instance, the promoter may be diligent in identifying seats with restricted view and warning customers of this - they’ve no way of making touts do the same. It harms the promoter’s image if people don’t get what they were expecting to get. Regarding names on tickets: it’s being done for the World Cup next year, and has been done for previous big football tournaments. But they don’t check everyone’s ID on the door, and it’s not clear quite what they want to achieve, other than perhaps blacklisting people who can be shown to have sold their tickets on. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/92 "2005-06-24T11:12:13Z")
The existance of a secondary market for tickets makes a market for forgeries possible. No ticket touting means no way to sell forgeries, which makes things a lot easier for the event venue. No hassles over two people expecting the same seat, no worries about illegal overcrowding if too many people are admitted. Making touting illegal also removes the problem of a sizable percentage of people turning up at the venue without tickets, but hoping to be able to purchase one from a tout. Managing these crowds milling about near the venue can be a major headache. So there you go, ‘scalping’ illegality has little to do with unbalanced market forces, it’s about security and safe crowd control. The bigger the event the more vital this becomes. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/93 "2005-06-24T13:26:02Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Strange – why would so many bands tour so often if each time they do they lose money? Make it up on the volume? 😃 As I said, it was treated as necessary publicity for sales of recordings (compact discs). That’s where the profit came from. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/94 "2005-06-24T13:35:23Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Don’t be surprised one day if tickets come issued with IDs on them an only the ID holder will be granted admittance. Tickets to World Cup '06 in Germany are being sold with built in microchips that will be read by machines installed at the various venues. These will be randomly checked and matched to passport or national ID cards. Purchaser must submit the passport numbers of all people attending the event. For example, if I buy four tickets for my family I need to provide passport numbers for Mrs Shibb, the two Shibblets and me. The main problem I have with this is SoccerTravel is already offering tickets for group stage matches at the finals for $900+ per ticket series. These are face value at about $30-45 ticket, or $90-125 series. They include a four day rail pass (value about $125). So since they have an association with Sepp Blatter/FIFA, _they_ can mark up the tickets for a 600-700% profit. But I can’t sell my ticket, even at face value, to someone, or buy one from another support of my team, at face value. That’s just BS, IMO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382.md?page=4)