# Why is Tony Soprano so much richer than everyone else? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 19, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706 "2018-04-19T14:11:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/41 "2018-04-20T12:14:43Z")
Isn’t there an episode where Hesh tells a family member that Tony Soprano isn’t really rich; he’s “only worth $6million”? I know there was a thread on the show once asking how much Tony’s house was worth; $1 million was the figure one doper gave. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/42 "2018-04-20T12:32:30Z")
Hesh took a risk in loaning money to Tony , he could have just whacked him rather than pay him back. Even though they were good friends with the mob anything goes. They don’t mind whacking friends and even relatives if it helps them. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/43 "2018-04-20T13:15:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > In a legitimate franchise operation you’re getting something of value for your franchise fee. In turn, you’re selling a product for which there is a public demand. > > There’s no clear equivalent to this in organized crime. If I’m the head of organized crime in a city and I “sell” you a territory on the East Side, I’m not selling you anything I have any legal ownership of. I’m just threatening you by telling you my criminal organization is bigger than yours and if you don’t pay me a share of what you steal then I will hurt you. > > Lower-level criminals prey on the public. Higher-level criminals then prey on those lower-level criminals. It’s not so simple. What the “franchise” gives you is that they defend this turf against other criminal groups. Suppose your family “owns” street gambling in this area, then you have the “right” as member to set up a gambling operation in the area, to the exclusion of other groups. Some new group tries to set up a gambling operation on your turf, you complain to the higher ups in your own family about it, and they communicate to the other group - in one form or another - that they’d be better off moving their operations elsewhere. In the absence of the family behind you, you would need to fight the interlopers on your own. Being part of a powerful family is a huge advantage in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/44 "2018-04-20T13:35:44Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > They also had a first edition pressing of _Rubber Soul_ in mint condition. Which really upset me when A.J.'s friend grabbed the record and said, “Hey, look at this!” If I had a record worth thousands of dollars and somebody put their grubby mitts on it without permission, I’d strangle the bastard. :mad: AJ’s friend was played by Paul Dano in a very early role…he would later go on to _major_ things, such as the crazy preacher in _There Will Be Blood_ and numerous other roles, such as playing Brian Wilson in _Love And Mercy._ ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/45 "2018-04-20T15:19:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > In a legitimate franchise operation you’re getting something of value for your franchise fee. In turn, you’re selling a product for which there is a public demand. > > There’s no clear equivalent to this in organized crime. If I’m the head of organized crime in a city and I “sell” you a territory on the East Side, I’m not selling you anything I have any legal ownership of. I’m just threatening you by telling you my criminal organization is bigger than yours and if you don’t pay me a share of what you steal then I will hurt you. > > Lower-level criminals prey on the public. Higher-level criminals then prey on those lower-level criminals. If you’re looking for exact equivalents, especially of things which crime bosses have legal ownership of, you won’t find many. It’ll have to be analogs which take into account the fact that we’re talking about crime. I took the franchise qualification from Steven Levitt’s study of crime. I personally think it’s more like the feudal system with a lord that grants you territory/activities and demands a cut and occasionally requires you to pitch in for defending the realm/turf, expanding the realm/turg and other common tasks. I’m sure people who know more about medieval history will be able to provide examples of vassals who were richer than their lords and lords who had difficulty keeping their vassals in line. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/46 "2018-04-20T15:32:47Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Hesh took a risk in loaning money to Tony , he could have just whacked him rather than pay him back. Even though they were good friends with the mob anything goes. They don’t mind whacking friends and even relatives if it helps them. The only thing that may have saved Hesh from getting whacked by Tony to get out of paying the money back was Hesh’s girlfriend Renata dying. Tony had enough residual guilt to pay him back after that, but he had already convinced himself that Hesh was being unfair in even reminding him of the debt. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/47 "2018-04-20T15:43:48Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > I personally think it’s more like the feudal system with a lord that grants you territory/activities and demands a cut and occasionally requires you to pitch in for defending the realm/turf, expanding the realm/turg and other common tasks. Probably a good comparison, especially considering the blood oath of loyalty taken by the “soldiers.” Organized crime exists because its more efficient and profitable than every-man-for-himself. Little guys on their own are vulnerable to attacks by others as well as by law enforcement. By being part of an organization they gain protection from other criminals and also from corrupt cops. That, plus access to the organization’s connections and resources, makes it worth kicking a percentage upstairs. The Mafia is kind of like a pyramidal protection racket, except paying into it actually has benefits. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/48 "2018-04-20T16:43:44Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > There is an episode where AJ has some friends over and they wonder why the Soprano house is not as big as the Corleone compound in “The Godfather”. Probably real estate prices in Long Island in the 1930s vs Northern New Jersey in the 1990s has something to do with it. Vito also has no spending vices, at least never mentioned. > > Junior Soprano has apparently hid some money but his dementia takes hold before he can dig it up. Johnny Boy may have buried money in his house but Janice can’t find it. When Christopher gets married he buys a nice house. Corleone was based on Carlo Gambino who had a summer house in Massapequa on Long Island. [Here](http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/mob-boss-carlo-gambinos-summer-home-former/view/google/)is a picture of it. Gambino’s net worth was estimated at 18 billion dollars. In contrast his succesor was Paul Castellano had a much bigger [house](https://nypost.com/2015/09/16/hillary-to-visit-notorious-mob-mansion-for-fund-raiser/)on Staten Island. Castellano was unpopular with his subordinates because they felt he took too much money and was not a real gangster just a racketeer. This played a part in his assassination by Gotti and Ruggerio. [Here](https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/home-of-john-gotti-at-160-11-85th-street-howard-beach-news-photo/97258648#/home-of-john-gotti-at-16011-85th-street-howard-beach-queens-picture-id97258648)is a picture of John Gotti’s house in Queens. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/49 "2018-04-20T17:57:28Z")
It’s a common but mistaken belief that professional criminals live by a code. They don’t. At best, they might pay lip service to a code but pretty much every professional criminal will violate any code when he sees an advantage in doing so. That’s what defines a professional criminal; they’re willing to break laws to further their own self-interest. There’s no reason to believe they draw a distinction between the laws enacted by the government and some code within their profession. As far as professional criminals are concerned, only suckers obey the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/50 "2018-04-20T18:04:55Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Gambino’s net worth was estimated at 18 billion dollars. I don’t believe these estimates are worth much if anything. These tend to be estimates of the value of his criminal enterprises, not of his accumulated cash profits, and besides for the underlying data being wild guesses to begin with, it’s very very difficult to assess the value of a mob enterprise, and ordinary metrics don’t apply. In addition, much of the criminal business being run by the “Gambino Crime Family” would be enterprises run by his associates, of which he had a share in but was by no means the owner. From what I’ve seen, the really big bosses tend to have high cash flow and can live very well while things are going good, but have little in the way of genuine assets, so their fortunes can go south very dramatically if their criminal enterprises dry up. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s a common but mistaken belief that professional criminals live by a code. They don’t. At best, they might pay lip service to a code but pretty much every professional criminal will violate any code when he sees an advantage in doing so. That’s what defines a professional criminal; they’re willing to break laws to further their own self-interest. There’s no reason to believe they draw a distinction between the laws enacted by the government and some code within their profession. As far as professional criminals are concerned, only suckers obey the rules. That will tend to vary a lot. Firstly, many people are more motivated to adhere to a code if they think there’s a pretty good chance they’ll be tortured and killed for violating it, than if they just think there’s a lesser chance that they’ll serve some time. In addition, many people have a need to feel like they’re adhering to some sort of moral standard. For many criminals, the one imposed by society and/or the law doesn’t work for them and the criminal code is one that allows them to do more of what they want while still feeling like good guys in some sense. (Personally I suspect this is behind a lot of the violence directed at pedophiles in prisons. People who have committed every sort of other crime getting a chance to feel righteous about something.) ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/51 "2018-04-20T18:47:50Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s a common but mistaken belief that professional criminals live by a code. They don’t. At best, they might pay lip service to a code but pretty much every professional criminal will violate any code when he sees an advantage in doing so. That’s what defines a professional criminal; they’re willing to break laws to further their own self-interest. There’s no reason to believe they draw a distinction between the laws enacted by the government and some code within their profession. As far as professional criminals are concerned, only suckers obey the rules. We should draw a distinction between ‘professional criminals’ in general and the Italian Mafia in particular. People are often born into the Mafia, and they are tied together by blood relationships, marriages, and a shared culture. Their code of conduct is not just someone’s arbitrary rules, but a system that has gradually developed over a period of a few centuries in Sicily and Southern Italy. Certainly criminals are law-breakers by definition, but the Mafia grew up as a reaction to repeated conquests and imposed laws by outsiders. To them, breaking the laws of the country is one thing, but breaking their own internal code is seen as completely different, and viciously punished. Yes, there are informants and breakers of Mafia rules, but the system still continues to exist, continues to matter, and continues to influence the behaviour of its members. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/52 "2018-04-20T19:08:18Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > We should draw a distinction between ‘professional criminals’ in general and the Italian Mafia in particular. [The Russian mob has some pretty strict rules too.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thief_in_law#Ethics_and_code_of_conduct) ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/53 "2018-04-20T19:27:01Z")
> [@](#): > > I guess Hesh had plenty of money as the $200k loan to Tony seemed like no big deal to him. He was probably making a lot from the record royalties he mentioned in 1 episode. Later there was a minor plot point about how some of Hesh’s wealth came from cheating recording artists out of their fair share of record earnings. Hesh was also involved in medical fraud and was in the horse racing business. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/54 "2018-04-20T19:46:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s a common but mistaken belief that professional criminals live by a code. They don’t. At best, they might pay lip service to a code but pretty much every professional criminal will violate any code when he sees an advantage in doing so. That’s what defines a professional criminal; they’re willing to break laws to further their own self-interest. There’s no reason to believe they draw a distinction between the laws enacted by the government and some code within their profession. As far as professional criminals are concerned, only suckers obey the rules. Yes, but we’re talking about the Mafia, not just “professional criminals.” I’ll agree that a Mafia member may do whatever he thinks he can get away with, but much of the “code” has to do with maintaining the Mafia organization. There are rules for how you behave towards other members of the Mafia, not towards civilians or non-connected criminals. You don’t whack a made man belonging to another family without permission because that will cause a war and everybody’s income will suffer. You can whack pretty much anyone else you want, unless it affects a higher-ups income. You leave the families of other members alone, because if you don’t you’ll subject yourself to the same treatment. But if you want to menace the family of someone not in the mob, go ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/55 "2018-04-20T20:11:17Z")
Also law enforcement personnel, and for the same reason. I once read about an incident where some mobster shot a cop (on Staten Island, IIRC). For days after that, the cops swarmed all known mob hangouts, and made clear that they would be breathing down their necks until they got their hands on the guy. Few days later, that mobster was found dead. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/56 "2018-04-20T21:06:50Z")
You guys suck. Now I have to go back and rewatch the whole series again because of reading through this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/57 "2018-04-20T21:19:29Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > Later there was a minor plot point about how some of Hesh’s wealth came from cheating recording artists out of their fair share of record earnings. Hesh was in large part modeled on [Morris “Mo” Levy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Levy), founder of Roulette Records and well-connected with the mob. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/58 "2018-04-20T22:11:42Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > You guys suck. Now I have to go back and rewatch the whole series again because of reading through this thread. [Oh, poor you](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMaSh20qBbg)! ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/59 "2018-04-20T22:24:34Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > [T]he Mafia grew up as a reaction to repeated conquests and imposed laws by outsiders. To them, breaking the laws of the country is one thing, but breaking their own internal code is seen as completely different, and viciously punished. It’s an ongoing theme of the show, at least from Tony’s point of view, how Tony and his closest friends are still trying to hold on to old-school “Mafia values”, while up-and-coming criminals (such as Jackie Aprile Jr.) had no respect for the old value system. Even stand-up guys like Big Pussy were willing to turn state’s evidence instead of facing a life sentence for dealing heroin. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706/60 "2018-04-20T22:48:18Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Yes, but we’re talking about the Mafia, not just “professional criminals.” > > I’ll agree that a Mafia member may do whatever he thinks he can get away with, but much of the “code” has to do with maintaining the Mafia organization. There are rules for how you behave towards other members of the Mafia, not towards civilians or non-connected criminals. You don’t whack a made man belonging to another family without permission because that will cause a war and everybody’s income will suffer. You can whack pretty much anyone else you want, unless it affects a higher-ups income. You leave the families of other members alone, because if you don’t you’ll subject yourself to the same treatment. But if you want to menace the family of someone not in the mob, go ahead. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Also law enforcement personnel, and for the same reason. > > I once read about an incident where some mobster shot a cop (on Staten Island, IIRC). For days after that, the cops swarmed all known mob hangouts, and made clear that they would be breathing down their necks until they got their hands on the guy. Few days later, that mobster was found dead. These are just examples of professional criminals acting in their own self-interest. There’s an obvious difference between a guy who won’t break the rules of his organization because he took an oath of loyalty and a guy who won’t break those rules because he knows the organization will kill him. Witness protection programs are full of guys who were willing to talk as soon as their personal safety was assured. If there was any genuine loyalty in organized crime, those guys wouldn’t talk. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-tony-soprano-so-much-richer-than-everyone-else/812706.md?page=4)