# Why is trump keeping classified documents-- for what purpose does he want them? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 29, 2022, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526 "2022-08-29T13:19:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/21 "2022-08-29T15:02:48Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > And I will note that this may complicate a criminal prosecution, if they can demonstrate no motive more compelling than “he’s just a stupid asshole.” I believe any prosecution would be for _having_ them, not for _selling_ them. Motive is not needed for successful prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/22 "2022-08-29T15:04:02Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > “I’m not selling secrets, I’m just charging people to look at them” sounds like one of those stupid loopholes people use and think they’re so clever. [![](https://i.chzbgr.com/full/9062539008/h01BDE40A/photo-of-a-cat-on-the-kitchen-counter) ](https://i.chzbgr.com/full/9062539008/h01BDE40A/photo-of-a-cat-on-the-kitchen-counter) GOTCHA-YA! ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/23 "2022-08-29T15:04:11Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > I could see someone dropping a word in his ear like, “Hey, man, these document look interesting/valuable, you should hang onto them. No, no, it’s cool, you’re the president, it’s all perfectly legal, man, it’s in the Constitution or something…” Yes, big factor here, it can’t be overstated how much others influence Trump’s affairs because he has little curiosity in anything that isn’t currently in the fore of his mind. A man that stupid and lazy can be made to do anything. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/24 "2022-08-29T15:06:48Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Thanks for starting this thread. It was becoming a distraction in the FBI S&S thread, and I was going to moderate it for that hijack. Now I don’t have to, and that makes me happy. 🙂 Good to hear! I was concerned that this post might bring the opposite reaction from a mod: “this topic has already been covered to death in the ‘Search and Seizure’ thread- closing”. And it might be for all I know- I was following the ‘Search and Seizure’ thread closely for awhile, but now I’m like 800+ posts behind on it. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/25 "2022-08-29T15:11:04Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > The one thing I can’t figure out though, is why they believe Trump has never revealed this information. While this is going to slightly contradict what I just said, I wonder how many of them know he’s lying but are convinced the left believes it. So, in their mind, they’re not actually gobbling it all up as if it’s the actual truth but rather using it as, what they believe to be, ammo against the other side. But even then, they still don’t realize they’re getting played. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Inferring intent is the hardest thing with Trump. Do any of the potential charges against him not require intent? I understand that “Removing these documents with the intent of selling them” is hard to prove if they’ve just been sitting in a dresser drawer, but if it’s just “Removing these documents”, then intent is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/26 "2022-08-29T15:13:52Z")
IANAL, but as I understand it, ‘intent’ in the obstruction charge doesn’t require them to prove what future use Trump may have had in mind for keeping the documents – only that he willfully intended to not return them to their rightful owner (us). I think they’ve got more than ample evidence of that intent. ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/27 "2022-08-29T15:14:44Z")
> [@solost](#): > > So my understanding is that trump didn’t run off with boxes of classified docs when he finally left the White House for the last time, he already had the documents at Mar-A-Lago because it had been designated a SCIF (Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility) when trump was President and Mar-A-Lago was basically White House South. When he was no longer President, the SCIF designation was removed from M-A-L, and he should have turned over all the docs than, but he didn’t I was under the impression that some of the items were packed up when he left the White House for Mar-A-Lago, jumbled together indiscriminately. While some items were there already, the letter from Kim Jong-Un was something he brought with him. Speaking of that letter, there are several reports of him showing that off to people at M-A-L, so I guess that’s #4 and #5. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/28 "2022-08-29T15:16:07Z")
Do not attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by: > [@solost](#): > > Sheer laziness / incompetence / stubbornness Add to that, as has been noted already, that Trump never understood that the President is not the Government. He never got that the President is actually just an employee of the Government, and in January 2021, he was supposed to just get his banker’s box of stuff and leave everything else at his old desk. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/29 "2022-08-29T15:18:11Z")
My hypothesis is that it’s a combination of him being pathologically secretive and contrarian as has been mentioned, and him having scribbled on a lot of these documents and him having selected them for his personal archive instead of shredding them. I also think whatever is in them is important to his motivation. Maybe there’s stuff like “our source in Kim Jong-Un’s” kitchen says Kim appears genuinely impressed with Trump’s power of will". Trump wants to hang on to it because it flatters him and has no concept of the risk it poses to US intelligence gathering and the life of the source. Maybe it’s just intelligence briefings that have in print a version of the sycophant litany we occasionally saw in recorded cabinet meetings. Personally I doubt he had nefarious purposes for the documents, but he’s constantly proven to be beyond my ability to comprehend, so I wouldn’t be shocked if that proves to be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/30 "2022-08-29T15:27:25Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Do not attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by: > > Sheer laziness / incompetence / stubbornness [Hanlon’s Razor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor), “ **Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.** ”, is one of my favorite adages or sayings. But in trump’s case, there is plenty of malice _ **and** _ stupidity in equal measure. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/31 "2022-08-29T15:55:31Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > While this is going to slightly contradict what I just said, I wonder how many of them know he’s lying but are convinced the left believes it. So, in their mind, they’re not actually gobbling it all up as if it’s the actual truth but rather using it as, what they believe to be, ammo against the other side. My favorite explanation of their mindset is a comparison to the “pigeon drop,” the famous con with many variations. In one of them, two conmen working in concert pretend to find an envelope of lost money in the presence of a third party, who is unknowingly the mark for the con. The mechanics vary, but the basic point is that one of the conmen takes the mark aside and suggests they scam the third guy. The mark knows there is a deception happening, but he thinks he’s helping to perpetrate it, and is unaware he’s actually the victim. The application of this analogy to the Trump cultist is left as an exercise for the reader. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/32 "2022-08-29T15:57:00Z")
Even if there was no ill intent initially, that he just grabbed it out of stupidity/laziness, legally that is negligence leading to a massive security risk. And with all of that, I’m willing to bet that if he’d actually returned all the documents when asked, there would have been no squawking from the government. (Even though they could have charged him, I’m sure they would have wanted to avoid making this a big public spectacle for political purposes.) It only got to where it is now because he refused to return them, he lied about returning them, he didn’t secure them, and when they came with a warrant to confiscate them, he broadcast that fact to the world. This is a nightmare of his making. And he is filing complaints which contain language that amounts to a confession. He’s practically indicting himself. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/33 "2022-08-29T16:00:38Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Maybe there’s stuff like “our source in Kim Jong-Un’s” kitchen I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s something, somewhere, that says ‘our source in Mar-a-Lago’s kitchen…’ ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/34 "2022-08-29T16:02:48Z")
Someone’s in the kitchen with Donny, strummin’ on the old banjo. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/35 "2022-08-29T16:14:12Z")
It’s particularly hilarious that, if he was showing them to people and bragging that he still had classified documents, now he’s doing a witch hunt for whoever ratted him out, when he’s the one who told people he had them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/36 "2022-08-29T16:27:51Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Do not attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by: But do not also dismiss malice as a reason just because other reasons are available. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/37 "2022-08-29T16:37:11Z")
Trump is generally lazy. He will always default to not doing something over doing it. So if classified documents were in his house while he was President, they would tend to stay there after he left office. This is especially true because when he left office, he also lost access to all the government staff that was around to pick up after him. An additional factor is his ongoing refusal to admit he lost the election. Telling somebody to pack up government documents and send them back is an admission that he’s no longer the President. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/38 "2022-08-29T16:53:09Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > My favorite explanation of their mindset is a comparison to the “pigeon drop,” the famous con with many variations. In one of them, two conmen working in concert pretend to find an envelope of lost money in the presence of a third party, who is unknowingly the mark for the con. The mechanics vary, but the basic point is that one of the conmen takes the mark aside and suggests they scam the third guy. The mark knows there is a deception happening, but he thinks he’s helping to perpetrate it, and is unaware he’s actually the victim. That’s pretty spot on and almost exactly what the left has been telling the right since day 1. You’re [collectively] not fooling us, you’re the victim. How many times we’ve told them this every time he scams them for donations to look for voter fraud or tells a governor to help him out and he’ll endorse them. Also, this, I assume, is another version of it from the beginning of Better Call Saul (not really a spoiler if anyone is concerned). Worth noting that this specific example relies on the mark knowing a Rolex is worth considerably more than $3000. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpMn6eJ4l8) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/39 "2022-08-29T16:56:00Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Someone’s in the kitchen with Donny, strummin’ on the old banjo. - I thought Melania gave up music. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526/40 "2022-08-29T17:17:47Z")
I thought motive didn’t count in criminal prosecutions, that it was more of a tool for investigators. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-trump-keeping-classified-documents-for-what-purpose-does-he-want-them/970526.md?page=3)