# Why is vaginal penetration the only definition of sex for some people
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [February 13, 2006, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329 "2006-02-13T20:09:01Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Amethyst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amethyst)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2006, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/1 "2006-02-13T20:09:01Z")
So a friend and I are discussing a topic which I’m sure was discussed here back in the days of Bill and Monica … but why do some people consider vaginal penetration to be the only definition of sex? And I’m not talking dictionary definition but more ethically.
Why do some people only consider it to be cheating if vaginal penetration occurs? If two people are in bed, naked together, experiencing orgasms etc without vaginal penetration, isn’t it still cheating (if one or the other of them is married to someone else)? (I guess this belief is the same reason that has lead to the purported increase in oral sex and anal sex among girls who make vows to remain virgins … sure they are technically virgins, but they seem sexually active to me.)
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### Author:  [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/2 "2006-02-13T20:12:43Z")
Its the only act that results in babies?
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### Author:  [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2006, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/3 "2006-02-13T20:20:30Z")
Its the only act that results in babies?
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### Author:  [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2006, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/4 "2006-02-13T20:21:56Z")
I think it’s up there with the folks who believe that French fries off someone else’s plate don’t have calories. :rolleyes:
That said, I was raised with this belief (re sex, not calories). Not that oral etc wasn’t cheating (heck, looking with the idea of finding is cheating in my book), but that intercourse was penetration. Sex=intercourse for me; any other sex is qualified by the adjective in front of it, oral, anal, car, phone, cyber or mutual \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_(fill in the blank).
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### Author:  [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/5 "2006-02-13T20:49:37Z")
I was actually about to post an IMHO thread on this.
I was going to ask: If someone asks you if you had sex with someone, what acts would constitute a ‘yes’?
People keep saying that other things should constitute sex, but when it comes down to it, if John asks Bob if he had sex with Cindy, and Bob and Cindy just got each other off with no penetration, should/would he say yes? And what did John mean?
In spite of protestations to the contrary, I think when most of us ask about sex, we only mean vaginal penetration.
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### Author:  [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/6 "2006-02-13T20:49:59Z")
Not so much “definition” as “defense.”–“We didn’t have sex blegal ecause the privates didn’t come in contact.” At one time, penetration was the only definition of “rape,” a crime that has since been changed to “sexual assault.”
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### Author:  [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/7 "2006-02-13T20:53:53Z")
I agree with **Annie**. Of course other stuff is sex, until you do it and need to justify it to yourself or others.
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### Author:  [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2006, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/8 "2006-02-13T21:01:37Z")
Some ladies don’t count it (oral or mutual masturbation) because it means their total number of sex partners number goes WAAAAAAAY up. 🙂
I’ve heard from that from three different girls.
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### Author:  [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2006, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/9 "2006-02-13T21:07:38Z")
Obligatory Clerks Reference:
> [@Clerks](#):
>
> ```
> DANTE
> (panicky)
> But...but you said you only had sex
> with three guys! You never mentioned
> him!
>
> VERONICA
> That's because I never had sex with
> him!
>
> DANTE
> You sucked his dick!
>
> VERONICA
> We went out a few times. We didn't
> have sex, but we fooled around.
>
> DANTE
> (massive panic attack)
> Oh my God! Why did you tell me you
> only slept with three guys?
>
> VERONICA
> Because I did only sleep with three
> guys! That doesn't mean I didn't
> just go with people.
>
> ```
Followed by:
> [@](#):
>
> (to CUSTOMER)
> My girlfriend sucked thirty-seven
> dicks!
>
> ```
> CUSTOMER
> In a row?
>
> ```
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### Author:  [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2006, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/10 "2006-02-13T21:21:53Z")
Cheating—if he kisses someone else I’d consider that cheating
Sex–I personally don’t count it as sex unless penetration has occurred. It’s just a satisfaction thing for me. Manual or oral orgasm doesn’t equal the satisfaction I get from sex.
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### Author:  [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/11 "2006-02-13T21:58:39Z")
Its the only act that results in babies?
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### Author:  [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/12 "2006-02-13T22:01:26Z")
Ok, I have no idea how I managed to pull a triple post an hour and a half apart.
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### Author:  [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2006, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/13 "2006-02-13T23:57:28Z")
In my book, if you’re playing with genitals, it’s sex. Different kinds of sex, different kinds of virginity, but doing any of it with someone else while you’re seeing someone is still cheating.
I think some people use the “it wasn’t real sex” justification when they’re in trouble, or when they don’t want to look slutty.
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### Author:  [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/14 "2006-02-14T00:02:39Z")
> [@Antigen](#):
>
> In my book, if you’re playing with genitals, it’s sex. Different kinds of sex, different kinds of virginity, but doing any of it with someone else while you’re seeing someone is still cheating.
>
> I think some people use the “it wasn’t real sex” justification when they’re in trouble, or when they don’t want to look slutty.
But if someone asked “Did you have sex with them?” in that case, would you say yes?
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### Author:  [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/15 "2006-02-14T00:11:29Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#):
>
> But if someone asked “Did you have sex with them?” in that case, would you say yes?
If there wasn’t penetration, I would reply (assuming this is someone I am pretty close with- I wouldn’t blab this to a stranger): “We didn’t fuck, but we did XYZ.” Or “Yup, he banged me like a Salvation Army drum” or something.
I have a friend who claims that everything except vaginal isn’t sex. Meaning that oral, anal, hands, and booby-lovin’ is not counted under “sex”- heck, she doesn’t even count these as “sexual relations” or “sexual acts”. Seriously. What does she label them as? Making out, of course. :smack:
In her case, I think she is just trying to justify her sluttiness. I know many girls that don’t want to be labled as whores, so they actually, vaginally fuck a low number, but let the entire neighborhood titty fuck them. It’s not slutty- afterall, it’s just making out! :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2006, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/16 "2006-02-14T00:15:06Z")
“Did you have sex.” can be answered “no” innocently enough even as you recall getting under someone’s bra for a 15 minute romp in the broom closet.
The question’s too narrow. Sure, the _intent_ of the question is known, but ‘that’s not what you asked.’ Might as well ask, “Did you eat hog’s eyes at lunch?” Sex is sex. If you’re interested in a more broad spectrum of behavior, ask about _that_.
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### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2006, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/17 "2006-02-14T00:15:26Z")
Well to the grand majority of the populace to grand majority of the last couple of centuries I think it would go that:
Vagina = Sex
Mouth = Felatio (which looks mispelled…?)
Hiney = Buggering
As to why it should be okay to do one and not another… I believe that _the loophole_ probably existed even before the first law was ever chiseled into stone. AKA, people lie to themselves, and enjoy it immensely.
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### Author:  [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2006, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/18 "2006-02-14T00:15:27Z")
The drum remark was IF we had actually had vaginal sex. Preview is my friend.
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### Author:  [@Khan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khan)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2006, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/19 "2006-02-14T02:41:59Z")
> [@Amethyst](#):
>
> Why do some people only consider it to be cheating if vaginal penetration occurs? If two people are in bed, naked together, experiencing orgasms etc without vaginal penetration, isn’t it still cheating (if one or the other of them is married to someone else)?
Who the hell believes THAT?! :eek:
Count me in with **Indygrrl** and **eleanorigby**. Romantic overtures towards anyone other than your partner is cheating, even if there isn’t any physical affection. I tense up even at the idea of flirting. Admittedly, though, my threshold is set pretty low in light of recent experience.
In fact, I’m gonna go start a thread on the subject. I’m real damned curious as to how anyone can see physical displays of romance as anything BUT cheating and not be in denial.
As for what constitutes sex, I would say that the various forms of diddling constitute intimate sexual behavior and are distinct from “going all the way.” In terms of morality and _ahem_ _accounting purposes_ that distinction still stands. But discounting blow jobs or cunnilingus as being in some sort of “gray area” is akin to saying that charcoal is the same as light gray by virtue of neither being black nor white.
Alternatively, one could say that an analogous situation would be fighting in terms of a couple arguing versus fighting in terms of two drunks slugging it out. They’re both forms of conflict, but still different.
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### Author:  [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2006, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/20 "2006-02-14T02:48:17Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#):
>
> But if someone asked “Did you have sex with them?” in that case, would you say yes?
I think I’d probably be more specific if I _had_ to answer - I’d say it wasn’t sex, but close. Because, really, it’s the same sort of act with the same sort of intimacy.
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