# Why is vaginal penetration the only definition of sex for some people **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 13, 2006, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329 "2006-02-13T20:09:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/21 "2006-02-14T02:49:18Z")
> [@Khan](#): > > Count me in with **Indygrrl** and **eleanorigby**. Romantic overtures towards anyone other than your partner is cheating, even if there isn’t any physical affection. I tense up even at the idea of flirting. Admittedly, though, my threshold is set pretty low in light of recent experience. > > In fact, I’m gonna go start a thread on the subject. I’m real damned curious as to how anyone can see physical displays of romance as anything BUT cheating and not be in denial. Just to make sure, you still believe that any physical contact with no romance is still cheating right? I’m sure the answer is left, but your choice of words made for some wiggle room. ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/22 "2006-02-14T02:50:24Z")
Historically, the **Virgin Test** , as applied to females, invovled the inspection of the _hymen_, which, it was assumed, was only broken by penetrative intercourse. Pragmatically, the reason for defining “actual sex” as being only penetrative sex is to enable the other stuff to be viewed lightly, as in “just fooling around.” STD-wise, any mutual involvement of genitalia and mucus membranes represents significant risk for many STDs. From a disease standpoint, any of it can lead to disease. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/23 "2006-02-14T02:51:44Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > I’m sure the answer is left I’m sure the answer is _yes_ :smack: ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/24 "2006-02-14T02:55:35Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > From a disease standpoint, any of it can lead to disease. Such as dancing! ---
**Author:** ![Khan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3ab097/32.png) [@Khan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/25 "2006-02-14T03:14:39Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > Just to make sure, you still believe that any physical contact with no romance is still cheating right? I’m sure the answer is left, but your choice of words made for some wiggle room. Sorry, I was pretty vague. The question in the second part of the OP struck a nerve. Any form of romantic interaction with someone that is not your partner is cheating, especially if it involves physical contact. When it is not physical, it’s harder to define because in that case you have to take intentions into account. Personally, even flirting upsets me because of my recent experience. And in order to avoid hijacking this thread, I’m going to start my own about that experience. ---
**Author:** ![urban1a](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47c2d/32.png) [@urban1a](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urban1a)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/26 "2006-02-14T04:02:57Z")
If someone cums it’s sex. Bob ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/27 "2006-02-14T04:06:42Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > Obligatory Clerks Reference: At the height of the Lewinsky scandal, I was trying to watch TV and all I could find on just about every channel was discussions of wether or not Clinton lied when he said they never had sex. Finally, I got fed up with the whole damned thing, grabbed a videotape out of my collection at random, and jammed it in the VCR. The tape was Clerks, and the last time I’d watched it, for whatever reason I’d stopped the tape about thirty seconds before that scene. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/28 "2006-02-14T04:07:57Z")
> [@urban1z](#): > > If someone cums it’s sex. > > Bob What if there is penetration, but no climax? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/29 "2006-02-14T04:31:51Z")
Then it’s \*bad \* sex, and it’s okay to leave it off your resume. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/30 "2006-02-14T06:52:33Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Ok, I have no idea how I managed to pull a triple post an hour and a half apart. wow, i’ve had the triple posts before…but that’s rather impressive… keep up the faith, brother ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/31 "2006-02-14T06:54:00Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > If there wasn’t penetration, I would reply (assuming this is someone I am pretty close with- I wouldn’t blab this to a stranger): “We didn’t fuck, but we did XYZ.” Or “Yup, he banged me like a Salvation Army drum” or something. > > I have a friend who claims that everything except vaginal isn’t sex. Meaning that oral, anal, hands, and booby-lovin’ is not counted under “sex”- heck, she doesn’t even count these as “sexual relations” or “sexual acts”. Seriously. What does she label them as? Making out, of course. :smack: > > In her case, I think she is just trying to justify her sluttiness. I know many girls that don’t want to be labled as whores, so they actually, vaginally fuck a low number, but let the entire neighborhood titty fuck them. It’s not slutty- afterall, it’s just making out! :rolleyes: and um…in WHICH neighborhood do you live in again? _grabs pen and paper_ ---
**Author:** ![Feydeau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df788c/32.png) [@Feydeau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feydeau)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/32 "2006-02-14T07:09:47Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Its the only act that results in babies? If you do it as often as you do it in here, of _course_ you’ll get babies! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/33 "2006-02-14T07:52:31Z")
> [@urban1z](#): > > If someone cums it’s sex. > > Bob Man, I think most of us have had sex alone… I’ve even had sex in my sleep! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/34 "2006-02-14T15:14:58Z")
How can I put this? Vaginal intercourse is the only “real” sex for me, because the quality of the connection (emotional and spiritual as well as physical) I can make with my partner is several magnitudes greater than from any other activity. Yes I can have orgasms and give my partner orgasms from any number of other activities, but nothing gives me the same level of connectedness with my partner and that sense of completeness. Having said that, I’d consider anything more than mild flirting to be infidelity. Just because I don’t put oral sex etc on the same level, doesn’t mean that I find it any more acceptable for my partner to do those things with anyone else! ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/35 "2006-02-14T16:35:05Z")
**Cheating** — Nothing is “cheating” unless you violate a promise that you made and then keep silent about having done so. If you don’t promise exclusivity, having sex with other people isn’t cheating. **Answering the OP** —It’s obviously a plot to keep from having to acknowledge that lesbians have sex with each other! Seriously (or semi-seriously, at least): much of the activity that is discounted as “not really sex” between hetero folks would be found on the list of entree options on the lesbian menu. While I don’t really think there’s a conscious conspiracy (“Hmm, I know how we can discredit dyke-sex! Let’s define sex in such a way that what they do doesn’t count!”), isn’t it interesting how the cultural attitude towards lesbian sex is that it’s hot, and sexy, but somehow unimportant (if the same female also has sex with guys, or even more so is part of a _menagé a trois_, the stuff she does with another gal is perceived as part of the build-up or foreplay)? For perspective, reverse the sexes. If Tom and Harry and Sally are sharing a romp in a big bed, and Tom and Harry have sex together and then they each do Sally, do we think of the boy-boy action as a prelude, or is Sally still kind of a garnish to a mostly gay male-bonding experience? And also: does it make a difference if the sex between Tom and Harry involves penetration? Does it make a difference _what_ orifice gets penetrated? ---
**Author:** ![Amethyst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@Amethyst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amethyst)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/36 "2006-02-14T17:38:15Z")
The friend with whom I have been having this discussion has recently had too much experience with the attitude that ‘the only real intimacy is sex’ or ‘it’s only cheating if you have intercourse’. I thought the best way to give my friend a wide perspective on this attitude was to ask the teeming masses. I think that that Antigen hit the nail on the head by saying it is just a way to justify behaviour. I can relate to irishgirl in that I find vaginal intercourse as the ‘best’ kind of sex for me - I find the orgasm during intercourse to be the most complete/full/intimate as opposed to any orgasm from masturbation/oral sex. (Mr. Amethyst and I agree on this - the orgasm from masturbation/oral sex is perhaps more physically intense but not as intimate/complete). What I find most enjoyable notwithstanding, I personally believe that cheating includes more than just intercourse … I would consider cheating to include a whole gamut of things including romantic kissing or flirting with intent/sexy flirting. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/37 "2006-02-14T23:14:06Z")
> [@Antigen](#): > > In my book, if you’re playing with genitals, it’s sex. I guess I need to find a better bookstore; I’ve got a library of Barbies and Kens. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329/38 "2006-02-15T00:35:21Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > If there wasn’t penetration, I would reply (assuming this is someone I am pretty close with- I wouldn’t blab this to a stranger): “We didn’t fuck, but we did XYZ.” Or “Yup, he banged me like a Salvation Army drum” or something. > > I have a friend who claims that everything except vaginal isn’t sex. Meaning that oral, anal, hands, and booby-lovin’ is not counted under “sex”- heck, she doesn’t even count these as “sexual relations” or “sexual acts”. Seriously. What does she label them as? Making out, of course. :smack: > > In her case, I think she is just trying to justify her sluttiness. I know many girls that don’t want to be labled as whores, so they actually, vaginally fuck a low number, but let the entire neighborhood titty fuck them. It’s not slutty- afterall, it’s just making out! :rolleyes: I hung out with the wrong people ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-vaginal-penetration-the-only-definition-of-sex-for-some-people/344329.md?page=1)