# Why is Wales not represented on the Union Jack? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 7, 2007, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730 "2007-08-07T11:54:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730/21 "2007-08-07T19:46:55Z")
Wales is a principality, not a kingdom. I think that has something to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730/22 "2007-08-07T20:14:26Z")
My understanding is that Wales was allowed to remain an independent principality under the control of the Prince of Wales, which is why it’s not included in “King of ES&NI”). I’m aware it has no truth value, but the Elizabethan era anecdote that was told as truth anyway and has some “truth in myth” value is that the Welsh leaders offered to accept Edward I’s souvereignty IF he would appoint a Prince of Wales and who met the following conditions: 1- The Prince must be born in Wales 2- The Prince must not speak English (implicit was that he be a native Welsh speaker, but the exact words were “does not speak English”) 3- The Prince must never have taken up arms against the Welsh at the behest of England Edward signed the treaty (according to the story) and promptly named his newborn son, Prince Edward (later Edward II), born in Wales while his father was on campaign and who being an infant spoke no English and had never taken up arms, as the first PoW. About the only truth in this is that Edward II _was_ the first Prince of Wales and was born at [Caernarfon Castle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caernarfon_Castle) in Wales, the rest is much later invention. Still, it’s an interesting story that explains some of the English-Welsh relations. There was a National Geographic article a few months ago about Prince Charles and how he’s actually the most conscientious PoW in many generations with his Welsh Revenue. He’s used it for major beautification and charitable activities. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730/23 "2007-08-07T20:39:56Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] My head hurts now. Then there’s the Hawaiian flag… [/QUOTE] The Hawaiian flag makes my head hurt without adding any dragons, thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Socks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a8b319/32.png) [@Captain\_Socks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Socks)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730/24 "2007-08-07T20:56:18Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] Shut your filthy mouth. :mad: There is no flag in the world that wouldn’t look better with the addition of a nice red dragon. In fact, when I get home from work, I’m going to Photoshop us some nice examples. 😃 [/QUOTE] Hey, I _like_ the Welsh flag. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730/25 "2007-08-07T21:48:07Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] The example of Cornwall is a good one. Cornwall has just as much claim to being a separate country as Wales does, and in fact some Cornish folks pretend it’s semi-independent in some vague way. [/QUOTE] They’re welcome to it. As some of us are to an independent East Anglia, thankyouverymuch 🙂 (Actually a terrible idea in so many ways, but hey) ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730/26 "2007-08-07T22:09:47Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] There was a National Geographic article a few months ago about Prince Charles and how he’s actually the most conscientious PoW in many generations with his Welsh Revenue. He’s used it for major beautification and charitable activities. [/QUOTE] Really? What did he look like before he used some of his revenue on plastic surgery? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730/27 "2007-08-07T22:43:17Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] Really? What did he look like before he used some of his revenue on plastic surgery? [/QUOTE] [Here ya go.](http://www.top20fun.com/images/pictures/0411.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730/28 "2007-08-07T23:47:51Z")
Well that was indeed money well spent and I’m sure his subjects in Wales thank him heartily for it. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730/29 "2007-08-08T07:47:56Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] They’re welcome to it. As some of us are to an independent East Anglia, thankyouverymuch 🙂 [/quote] Maybe they should revive all 7 of the old Saxon kingdoms, just for the hell of it. I get dibs on being king of Kent… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730/30 "2007-08-08T10:20:47Z")
But East Anglia wouldn’t be a Saxon kingdom, would it? It’s the Law! The Danelaw:) ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730/31 "2007-08-08T10:45:07Z")
How are the countries you mentioned represented on a flag basically comprised of a mix of red, white, and blue criss-crossing lines? Sorry, I hope that did not sound terse…no offense intended. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730/32 "2007-08-08T10:47:08Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] But East Anglia wouldn’t be a Saxon kingdom, would it? It’s the Law! The Danelaw:) [/QUOTE] Tell that to St Edmund 🆒 [QUOTE=Jinx] How are the countries you mentioned represented on a flag basically comprised of a mix of red, white, and blue criss-crossing lines? Sorry, I hope that did not sound terse…no offense intended. [/QUOTE] [Union Jack - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Flag) expains the history and development of the design ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730/33 "2007-08-08T13:25:38Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] \*Hint: dragons instead of stripes. \* 🆒 [/QUOTE] Nah, 50 little dragons instead of stars. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730/34 "2007-08-08T13:38:31Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] Shut your filthy mouth. :mad: [/QUOTE] Would you rather he took a leek on it? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730/35 "2007-08-08T15:22:38Z")
They should have removed all but a sixth of St. Patrick’s flag from the unionjack long ago. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2007, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730/36 "2007-08-09T04:15:27Z")
[QUOTE=asterion] Nah, 50 little dragons instead of stars. [/QUOTE] Isn’t that the flag of the United Weyrs of Pern? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2007, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730/37 "2007-08-09T09:11:14Z")
[QUOTE=An Gadaí] They should have removed all but a sixth of St. Patrick’s flag from the unionjack long ago. 😃 [/QUOTE] No, all of it, and towed Ireland five hundred miles out to sea. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-wales-not-represented-on-the-union-jack/414730.md?page=1)