Sure we know. It’s because those things you mention are things they only pretend to care about. What they really care about is “triggering the libs” and keeping minorities that are here in the USA in their place. And Trump has succeeded at that, beyond their wildest expectations.
And get away with doing what they wish they could get away with (and believe they will if they elect them). And hurt the people they want to hurt.
Indeed - Trump is the avatar of white right-wing Christian supremacy, unwarranted grievance, and FUD.
He’s a lot dumber. Less Hitler, more Mussolini. I’m still trying to coin the term “Greedy Amin” while I can.
I got a little more insight into the quintessential trump voter looking at the pictures of the vandal mob in the Capitol building. These people are
- Really really really stupid.
- Angry the way a six year old is angry because he didn’t get dessert.
One man interviewed by the NYT boasted that he had taken a shit in one of the bathrooms and didn’t flush.
I got into a little argument with a guy who dismissed the break in as just a bunch of clowns, and that the fear of democracy crumbling, or a coup was ridiculous. When I compare real coups in other countries (simultaneously shutting down the television and radio stations, executing the president, and armored cars driving up and down the streets with bullhorns telling everyone to stay inside), I realized he kind of had a point.
Trump is simultaneously the most dishonest and most honest politician ever.
In one sense he’s the most dishonest, in that a higher percentage of things he says are untrue than anyone else, and the things he says are more detached from reality than things anyone else says.
But in another sense, he’s also the most honest, in that he genuinely believes all the ridiculous things that he says. He has an extremely weak grasp of reality and a tremendous capacity for self-delusion, and he can believe anything that he thinks (often incorrectly) is in his interest to believe.
As a result, he has a sort-of genuineness to him that most politicians don’t have. Most politicians only say things after careful consideration of the political ramifications, generally in consultation with advisors who are also focused on the political ramifications. Trump tells it like he sees it, often against the advice of his advisors, and this comes across.
Of course, for most people the net impact of the above is a very negative one, and Trump is only “popular” in the sense that he has a lot of fervent followers - his overall approval/disapproval rates have been negative throughout his presidency. But for people whose own grasp of the facts is very weak and malleable - which includes a lot of people - the net impact is positive.
The other part (and it interacts with the above) is a counter-reaction to the PC cancel culture.
That isn’t honesty-That is mental illness.
Yes, earnestly believing crazy things is not a trait worthy of praise, but of pity. And it certainly shouldn’t be encouraged.
My Trumpist SIL is one of those people who, faced with incontestable evidence that whatever she asserted was completely wrong, will simply repeat her previous statement and declare “It’s just my opinion”. But that’s not how “opinions” work. If you insist that the sun rises in the west, that’s not an “opinion”; that’s an unhealthy delusion.
He does? Let me a cite a few examples. Even before he became president, he was a birther, and made public statements about “you wouldn’t believe what my investigators in Hawaii are discovering”. Turned out, they were discovering nothing, and it further turned out that there were no investigators.
I’m not going to go through a very long list – let’s just fast-forward to yesterday, when he made that phony hypocritical speech where he clearly didn’t believe a single word he was saying but was told by sane people that it was politically necessary. And the very first thing he said was how he “immediately” deployed the National Guard when the riots started. It appears that what he actually did when the riots started was enthusiastically watch them on TV, and refuse to call the National Guard, so that an appeal had to be made to Pence.
The man lies the way the rest of us breathe – constantly, and instinctively. Some of it may be delusional, but a great deal of it is done knowingly, albeit in a sort of unconscious fashion, where the fact that it’s a total lie is to him unimportant. But don’t say that he “genuinely believes” all the things that he spouts. He’s certainly mentally ill, but he’s also a congenital liar.
I recently read an article - might have been in the Atlantic - that observed that almost every single candidate who loses a presidential election (the Dukakis, Gore, Kerry, Romney, Hillary types) expresses regret afterwards that they had not been more “authentic” during their campaign and that they strongly believed they would have won, or at least performed much better, had they expressed their true, blunt, unfiltered views and personality to voters.
Trump winning in 2016, and hanging so tough in 2020, may be proof of the success of a candidate who doesn’t have a brain-to-mouth filter.
On the question of why he’s so popular (among morons devoid of critical thinking, at least) some interesting ideas have been presented, and one could probably write a whole book about it derived from theories of abnormal psychology.
But I can give a very simple and very vivid answer, because I forced myself to watch the first 15 minutes or so of the speech he gave to his adoring followers on that fateful early afternoon of January 6. All you have to do is watch the first five to ten minutes to understand. You begin to understand even before he starts speaking.
He is a liar, a grifter, crooked to the core, stupid as a brick, and good at practically nothing, but he does have one great talent: he is a showman and a masterful con artist. He pranced around on the stage like a veritable rock star, and he played off the audience and they played off him. It was a synergy of deceit and stupidity, wrapped up in a glittering shell of vapid celebrity. And with that superstar mystique established, he then lies to the gullible rubes and tells them all the things they want to hear, and that he is their hero and their savior. For those who are low on information and lower still in critical thinking skills, it’s an irresistible package.
He’s done comparable things on rare occasions when the heat gets too high. Usually he goes on to immediately undercut himself by letting his true feelings out shortly afterwards.
In any event, compared to most politicians he’s a lot more authentic.
Right. Suppose a politician was as unfiltered as Trump but wasn’t also a corrupt and amoral idiot with serious mental issues, they might do even better than Trump.
OTOH, it’s possible that the only reason Trump was/is as unfiltered as he is is due to his mental issues. Because the weight of virtually unanimous conventional wisdom saying you absolutely can’t do that is very strong. Trump is in his own mind the smartest man in the world and biggest expert on every conceivable issue, so he’s confident enough to think that all political experts are wrong and only he himself has it right. Normal people can’t do that.
As to the issue itself, it’s an example of a point I’ve previously made here WRT Trump and his appeal, which is that sometimes the total is very different than the sum of the parts.
You didn’t address the fact that there are a great many instances where he very obviously knows that he’s lying, intentionally and with self-interest as the only goal. There’s nothing “authentic” about that. If a person becomes known as a habitual liar, nothing they say can be considered to have any meaning. An “authentic” person is one who says what they truly believe, not one who says what best serves their interests irrespective of reality, and indeed egregiously opposed to reality. For such a person, the very concept of “authenticity” is meaningless.
We can debate what “authenticity” means or doesn’t mean, but to a great many American voters, he came across as their definition of authentic. That’s all that mattered, election-wise.
What you and I may consider to be lying and lack of self-control, they considered to be plain straight-talking, telling it like it is.
That’s true, and I thought that would have been clear from my earlier comments. As an accomplished con man, he’s highly skilled at totally bamboozling and fascinating low-information imbeciles lacking critical thinking skills. Not all Trump voters are like that – some are just knee-jerk (R) voters who would vote the (R) ticket even if the candidate was an orangutan, but it certainly describes his dedicated and adoring core base – the rubes who are totally taken in.
And let’s not forget the media’s role in all this. I know people who only watch Fox News, from morning to night. If your only source of news is Fox News and Trumps tweets and Facebook page, and they all spew the same garbage, then that’s your reality. Since the beginning Trump has eschewed ever other major news source that disagreed with him as fake news. He has pointed his followers to one and only one source of mass information. While only a weak-minded person would fall for that tactic, millions of people apparently have. For the record I watch CNN, which is certainly biased to the left, but I also watch CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS, and the BBC to get an outsiders perspective. I read the NY Times and the Washington Post, but lots of other newspapers and magazines. I even watch Fox News once in a while and cringe seeing what most people are hearing.
It says everything about the world that someone can ask why Trump is so popular while at the same time dismissing the notion that he has charisma and therefore can’t lead a cult of personality. People have apparently lost the ability to believe their eyes. No different from people claiming that wearing a mask will kill you while watching doctors and nurses wear them twelve hours a day.
As for Trump, I’ve said from the beginning that his appeal is that he hates everyone his followers hate. They’ve been told for years that hate is wrong and that people look down on them because they were haters - bigots, sexists, homophobes, Islamophobes, and against liberals, elites, educated people of all kinds. Hate was good, Trump said Orwellianly. I hate them too and look how well off I am. Follow me and you’ll be well off too.
This is and was insanity, but that’s the definition of a cult of personality. Trump kept saying that he couldn’t have lost the election because the crowds at his rallies were so large. What is that other than a cult of personality?
And these past few days also prove it. The cult lasts as long as the leader exudes power. Take the power away and the rats immediately turn on him as they scuttle away. The ones more deeply under his spell will stay loyal forever, though, feral, rabid monsters of Trump’s creation.
Where do you get the beginning of that time line?
I don’t think he believes what he says. He grew up in a wealthy family, was a bully with his wealth. Being an employer, he regularly lies to his employees, and they pretend to believe it so that they continue to be employees.
There’s a huge portion of the American public that thinks the US government isn’t working for them. They view it as a behemoth that taxes them, and wants to tax them more, but isn’t delivering anything that improves their lives.
A big majority of the people who feel that way view themselves as patriotic and possessing traditional values, which include self-reliance, religion, localism, law and order, and support for the military. To various degrees, they reject many (in their viewpoint) non-traditional values including secularism, multiculturalism, globalisation, sexual and gender diversity, and the establishment of a welfare state.
Most of the above group of people believe there’s a liberal establishment that embraces the values they’ve rejected and belittle the values they hold. Not only that, the liberal establishment insults them labelling them as uneducated, racist, homophobic, ignorant, and authoritarian-loving. Or, if you remember from four years ago, deplorable.
Trump’s a PT Barnum who tells the people who fall into the above three groups that they’re right. There should be a smaller, more effective government focussed on their needs and taxing them less. Their values are the good values and they’re right to oppose the liberal establishment that belittles them. Trump’s message is a message that they want to hear, and it’s delivered by a showman.
On top of the above paragraph, much of the liberal establishment calls the members of the public who’ve accepted Trump fools, and continue the messages of belittlement. It’s an us vs them situation, and nobody’s going to cross over to a “them” which is scorning “us”.
I’m not LSLGuy – or an expert on popular media – but I see Rush Limbaugh as a progenitor. Here’s an excerpt from his Wikipedia page:
In 1992, Democrat Bill Clinton was elected president of the United States. Limbaugh satirized the policies of Clinton and First Lady Hillary Clinton, as well as those of the Democratic Party. In the Republican Revolution when the party regained control of Congress in the 1994 midterm elections after several decades, the freshman Republican class awarded Limbaugh an honorary membership in their caucus believing he had a role in their success.
I don’t know how dishonest Limbaugh was at any given point in his career, but the few times I tried listening to him made me disgusted after a few minutes. Not so much blatant lies, as putting a negative spin on anything related to Clinton (and later, Obama). I also don’t know how he personally dealt with vital issues like Obama’s Tan Suit, or the Military Salute, or the Birther bullshit, but I suspect the worst.
Many years ago, I read an article where Limbaugh admitted that he was being humorous. At some point he began taking himself seriously.