# Why is "West" such a common surname compared to "East," "North," or "South"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 16, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717 "2015-11-16T18:01:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Interrobang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/interrobang/32/17463_2.png) [@Interrobang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interrobang)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/1 "2015-11-16T18:01:24Z")
All four English-language cardinal directions are used as surnames in the US (and, I imagine, other English-speaking countries). However, in terms of popularity, West is far more common than any of the other three: [ul] [li]West is the 115th most common last name in the US. [/li][li]North is 1623rd.[/li][li]East is 2684th.[/li][li]South is 3066th.[/li][/ul] And anecdotally, it’s easy for me to think of people with the last name West —Kanye, Mae, Dominick, Herbert, etc. I’m curious: Why is “west” vastly more popular as a surname? ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/2 "2015-11-16T18:18:10Z")
Southern 4381 Northern 8660 Western 10888 Eastern 116123 ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/3 "2015-11-16T18:22:34Z")
ok, and … what about the wards: Eastward and Westward, sure - but Northward and Southward? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/4 "2015-11-16T18:56:08Z")
The first recorded uses of _West_ as a surname are in the 12th century. In England, this was the period in which the Norman administration was established, and the Normans were primarily in the eastern and southern areas of the country. London had become the de facto capital of Saxon England in the 11th century (before that the principal Saxon city was Winchester) so it became William’s capital too. The Normans were the first to keep detailed written records of people and chattels, and introduced the poll tax; before that, surnames weren’t really necessary. So just as surnames came into vogue, “west” became a convenient descriptor.\* “East” would not have been that useful since most of the Normans lived _in_ the east. That also conveniently explains why North is more common than East or South. This is a theory I’ve just come up with which as far as I know does not appear in any other source, but it fits the facts. \*Surnames, being intended to distinguish people, were generally based on unusual characteristics. You couldn’t very well be William of Salisbury _in_ Salisbury, when there were 400 other Williams in Salisbury, but if you moved to Bath, you could be the only William of Salisbury. ETA: there were a bunch of John Wests who governed Virginia in the 17th century, which may account for how common a surname it seems to be among African-Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/5 "2015-11-16T19:01:18Z")
> [@Interrobang](#): > > All four English-language cardinal directions are used as surnames in the US (and, I imagine, other English-speaking countries). > > However, in terms of popularity, West is far more common than any of the other three: > > [ul] > [li]West is the 115th most common last name in the US. [/li][li]North is 1623rd.[/li][li]East is 2684th.[/li][li]South is 3066th.[/li][/ul] > And anecdotally, it’s easy for me to think of people with the last name West —Kanye, Mae, Dominick, Herbert, etc. > > I’m curious: Why is “west” vastly more popular as a surname? Do you have the stats on how common the names actually are (what percentage of people have the name West, etc.)? The rankings of name popularity might be misleading - for example, this chart shows that “Mary” was the most popular girl’s first name from the 1880s through the 1950s - but the percentage of girls named “Mary” dropped substantially even though the ranking stayed the same. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/6 "2015-11-16T19:03:18Z")
A WAG: The name originated in England. England was settled by people who sailed over from Europe and landed along the Eastern coast and then traveled inward. So the general trend of development would be westward and as new places were discovered they would to the west of places that were already known and would be named thus to distinguish them. You’d get names like “the Village” and “the West Village”, “the Woods” and “the West Woods”, “the Field” and “the West Field”. And eventually these West place names were adopted by people that lived in them; John who lives in the West Village became John West. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/7 "2015-11-16T20:50:17Z")
Another WAG: in German and Dutch “west” is the same word as in English, whereas the other directions aren’t. So all the Norths, Easts, and Souths must have come from England, but you have Wests from England, Germany, the Netherlands, Austria, etc. Plus it’s the similarly-pronounced “vest” in the Scandinavian languages, so it’s likely some Vests got turned into Wests at Ellis Island. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/8 "2015-11-16T21:57:32Z")
Before you speculate on these things, you need to know the etymology of the words for the cardinal points, as well as the etymology of he name West. If the word “west” existed 700 years ago, but the words for the other compass points didn’t, that alone would explain it. It’s also possible that the name west doesn’t share any ties with the word west. It may mean waist or worst or almost anything else. If that is the case then you can’t actually compare west to other name that actually are related to cardinal points. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/9 "2015-11-16T22:04:07Z")
PS You also need to know the form that all these words took throughput their history. If the word for east was east, but the word for west was westward and the word for north was norton then you need to compare east not just to west and north but also to westward, westwood, norton, norden and all the other variants. It’s also possible that the names west and east don’t share any ties with the words west and east. West may mean waist or worst and east may mean easter, or almost anything else. Or those etymolgies may be the origin of some of those names and the cardinal points by the origin of others. If that is the case then you can’t actually compare the name as though all are related to cardinal points. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/10 "2015-11-16T22:34:03Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Before you speculate on these things, you need to know the etymology of the words for the cardinal points, as well as the etymology of he name West. > > If the word “west” existed 700 years ago, but the words for the other compass points didn’t, that alone would explain it. The names of the cardinal directions in English are all from Old English, and derived from Proto-Germanic forms. **west** , from Old English _west_ and Proto-Germanic _west-_. As an adjective from late 14c.; as a noun from late 12c. **east** , from Old English _east, eastan_ and Proto-Germanic _aust_. As one of the four cardinal points of the compass, from c. 1200. **north** , from Old English _norð_ and Proto-Germanic _nurtha_. As a noun, c. 1200, from the adverb. **south** , from Old English \*suð \* and Proto-Germanic _sunthaz_. As an adjective from c. 1300; as a noun from late 13c. So the terms are roughly contemporaneous in origin, all dating from around 1200-1300. Source: [Online Etymology Dictionary](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/11 "2015-11-16T22:57:04Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Before you speculate on these things, you need to know the etymology of the words for the cardinal points, as well as the etymology of he name West. Before I speculate well on these things, I need to know the etymology. But I can nonetheless speculate without any knowledge at all. > [@Blake](#): > > If the word “west” existed 700 years ago, but the words for the other compass points didn’t, that alone would explain it. I find it hard to believe that a language would somehow invent a word for one compass direction and the others would lag behind. East and west are pretty much a conceptual pair; when you’ve come up with one concept, you’ve also got the other. > [@Blake](#): > > It’s also possible that the name west doesn’t share any ties with the word west. It may mean waist or worst or almost anything else. If that is the case then you can’t actually compare west to other name that actually are related to cardinal points. This actually was one of my first thoughts. But I checked (thereby disproving my claim above that I was acting without any knowledge) and I found that the surname West originated from the compass direction. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/12 "2015-11-16T23:05:19Z")
FWIW, I haven’t seen any sources that suggest the etymology of the surname “West” is anything other than some variation of “dude that lives over in the west part of town” or possibly “dude who moved here from the west.” In Western Europe, most people didn’t start getting surnames until the mid-to-late Middle Ages, which was pretty late in the game linguistically-speaking. The nobility got an earlier start, but by the time most folks got a surname they would have been speaking something in the same ballpark as the modern version of their language, not some exotic dead dialect. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/13 "2015-11-16T23:22:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I find it hard to believe that a language would somehow invent a word for one compass direction and the others would lag behind. East and west are pretty much a conceptual pair; when you’ve come up with one concept, you’ve also got the other. Do you also find it believe that English would invent the husband before the word for wife? Or the word boy before the word girl? Or the word master before the word servant. Those are also conceptual pairs aren’t they? I get the impression that you don’t understand that words change over time. A language can have a word \*for \*east without actually having the \*word \*east. For various reasons words change. One word out a conceptual pair can drop out usage and be replaced by a synonym without the other word also having to be replaced. > [@](#): > > This actually was one of my first thoughts. But I checked (thereby disproving my claim above that I was acting without any knowledge) and I found that the surname West originated from the compass direction. Where did you check, and how reliable is the source? ---
**Author:** ![Lazy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9fc29f/32.png) [@Lazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lazy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/14 "2015-11-16T23:23:39Z")
My first thought is that randomness undoubtedly plays some role: Smith/Schmidt are more popular than Baker/Becker in England/Germany, but the reverse is true in the Netherlands. I doubt the explanation is to be found in differences in the history of occupations, but rather in accidents of the survival of lineages. The difference between West and the other directions does seem rather large, though… BTW, in German, the order is Westermann (#699), Ostermann (#811), Nordmann (#2049), and I didn’t notice any South equivalent among surnames with more than 1000 people (the top 3422), although I can’t say I looked very carefully. ---
**Author:** ![Interrobang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/interrobang/32/17463_2.png) [@Interrobang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interrobang)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/15 "2015-11-16T23:29:37Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Do you have the stats on how common the names actually are (what percentage of people have the name West, etc.)? Good question. I don’t have that directly, but: US citizens with the surname West: 224,620 US citizens with the surname North: 24,121 US citizens with the surname East: 14,728 US citizens with the surname South: 12,918 So regardless of the absolute popularity against the general population, “West” is a surname for almost 10 times as many people as the next most common surname on the list. It’s more than four times more popular than the other three directions combined. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/16 "2015-11-16T23:39:00Z")
> [@Lazy](#): > > My first thought is that randomness undoubtedly plays some role: Smith/Schmidt are more popular than Baker/Becker in England/Germany, but the reverse is true in the Netherlands. I doubt the explanation is to be found in differences in the history of occupations, but rather in accidents of the survival of lineages. The difference between West and the other directions does seem rather large, though… I think this may be a large part of it. Surnames undergo a kind of random walk in frequency over time. Their frequency today probably has little to do with their original frequency 700 years ago. West could be more common now simply due to random chance. ---
**Author:** ![Lazy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9fc29f/32.png) [@Lazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lazy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/17 "2015-11-16T23:44:03Z")
Here are distribution maps for the four suranmes for Great Britain in 1881: West: [http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/Map.aspx?name=WEST&year=1881&altyear=1998&country=GB&type=name](http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/Map.aspx?name=WEST&year=1881&altyear=1998&country=GB&type=name) East [http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/Map.aspx?name=EAST&year=1881&altyear=1998&country=GB&type=name](http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/Map.aspx?name=EAST&year=1881&altyear=1998&country=GB&type=name) North: [http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/Map.aspx?name=NORTH&year=1881&altyear=1998&country=GB&type=name](http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/Map.aspx?name=NORTH&year=1881&altyear=1998&country=GB&type=name) South: [http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/Map.aspx?name=SOUTH&year=1881&altyear=1998&country=GB&type=name](http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/Map.aspx?name=SOUTH&year=1881&altyear=1998&country=GB&type=name) It doesn’t look like any of the surnames was influenced much by country-wide factors, assuming these would still be apparent in 1881. I would guess that they were primarily surnames derived from localities, like the west side of the village. ---
**Author:** ![Lazy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9fc29f/32.png) [@Lazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lazy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/18 "2015-11-17T00:03:08Z")
Although, to modify what I said a little, when I look a bit more at the maps, it looks like East, South, and North have peaks in Lincolnshire, Herefordshire, and West Yorkshire respectively, suggesting that they may derive from only one or two original families, whereas West is pretty widespread throughout the Southeast, suggesting that perhaps there is more to the story with West. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/19 "2015-11-17T00:06:45Z")
> [@Interrobang](#): > > Good question. I don’t have that directly, but: > > US citizens with the surname West: 224,620 > US citizens with the surname North: 24,121 > US citizens with the surname East: 14,728 > US citizens with the surname South: 12,918 > > So regardless of the absolute popularity against the general population, “West” is a surname for almost 10 times as many people as the next most common surname on the list. It’s more than four times more popular than the other three directions combined. Thanks, that’s just what I was looking for. This site about surname origins may help [Surname Database: West Last Name Origin](https://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/West). - looks like West happens to be an old name, which may give enough of an advantage to explain its current popularity. ---
**Author:** ![Lazy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9fc29f/32.png) [@Lazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lazy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/20 "2015-11-17T00:24:20Z")
And modifying what I said above, looking a little more into the history of the surnames, it is pretty clear that North, at least, and probably the others, did not originate with just one or two families. I guess I should slow down and stop spreading ignorance. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717.md?page=2)