# Why is "West" such a common surname compared to "East," "North," or "South"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 16, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717 "2015-11-16T18:01:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/21 "2015-11-17T01:21:29Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Do you also find it believe that English would invent the husband before the word for wife? Or the word boy before the word girl? Or the word master before the word servant. Those are also conceptual pairs aren’t they? I wouldn’t regard those as conceptual pairs. Any words involving relationships between people - as the examples you gave all do - are going to have a much more complicated history than words that describe descriptive terms like big and small, tall and short, left and right, east and west. These are all pairs of words that are based on the idea that an item can be described as having one of two possible states - having the state or not having the state; having more of a state or having less of a state; having the state or having the opposite of the state. There’s no similar polarization between pairs like master and servant, for example. You can’t divide a group of people into those who are masters and those who are servants; some might be one or the other but some will be both and some will be neither. And you can’t describe a person you’ve just met in terms of being your master or your servant - even if he has those relationships to someone else, he doesn’t have them with you. > [@Blake](#): > > I get the impression that you don’t understand that words change over time. Your impression would be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/22 "2015-11-17T12:15:52Z")
Looking at the stats for the UK, the effect seems to be nowhere near as large: West - 57,780 North - 12,877 East - 10,658 South - 4,925 Similar pattern in Aus (I couldn’t find a surname-popularity site - best I could do was immigration records from [Ancestry.com](http://Ancestry.com), which give about 100k Wests, 29k Norths, 11k Easts, 8k Souths) It _looks_ like just random variation, where the disparity in the US just built on a disparity which was already building up when the colonists started coming. In [France](http://www.genealogie.com/nom-de-famille/), although the compass-names all seem extraordinarily unpopular, Nord (211) outstrips Sud(51) and Est(34) by a decent margin - Ouest(1!) barely exists. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/23 "2015-11-17T14:54:08Z")
I don’t know that a 5:1 or greater disparity can be the result of random variation. And it’s probably significant that West is still the most common of the four (in the UK). [QUOTE=Blake] Do you also find it believe that English would invent the husband before the word for wife? [/QUOTE] _Husband_ did not take on its present meaning until fairly late in the game. Until the 13th century it meant a householder or head of household. Its current significance is merely a side effect of England’s patriarchal society. _Wife_ also appears first in Old English and actually appears to predate husband in the sense of a male marriage partner. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/24 "2015-11-17T15:02:01Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Looking at the stats for the UK, the effect seems to be nowhere near as large: > > West - 57,780 > North - 12,877 > East - 10,658 > South - 4,925 > > Similar pattern in Aus (I couldn’t find a surname-popularity site - best I could do was immigration records from [Ancestry.com](http://Ancestry.com), which give about 100k Wests, 29k Norths, 11k Easts, 8k Souths) That can’t be right. The UK has three times the population of Aus. Unless we’re saying people with names by compass point were more likely to be petty criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/25 "2015-11-17T15:25:09Z")
The Australian numbers are probably for all the Wests, Norths, etc., who’ve ever lived there rather than just those currently in the phone book. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/26 "2015-11-17T15:50:12Z")
Tangent: Are the surnames Norton, Sutton, Easton, and Weston essentially just the compass points plus _-town/-ton_? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/27 "2015-11-17T16:13:28Z")
Yes. _-Ton_ is a Saxon suffix denoting a fortified or enclosed village. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/28 "2015-11-17T16:17:34Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > That can’t be right. The UK has three times the population of Aus. Unless we’re saying people with names by compass point were more likely to be petty criminals. Well, having a name that means “dude that lives over there” at a time when everyone else was getting names like Smith and Miller and Potter perhaps implies something about the respectability of one’s ancestors’ line of work. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/29 "2015-11-17T19:38:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The Australian numbers are probably for all the Wests, Norths, etc., who’ve ever lived there rather than just those currently in the phone book. Point! ---
**Author:** ![IDtenT\_Error](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@IDtenT\_Error](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IDtenT_Error)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/30 "2015-11-18T16:39:59Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Well, having a name that means “dude that lives over there” at a time when everyone else was getting names like Smith and Miller and Potter perhaps implies something about the respectability of one’s ancestors’ line of work. 🙂 The less respectable ones would have this one: > **[Crook (surname)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crook_%28surname%29)** > > Crook is an Old Norse surname. Notable people with the surname include: ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/31 "2015-11-18T20:31:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Before I speculate well on these things, I need to know the etymology. But I can nonetheless speculate without any knowledge at all… 🙂 / not snark, just a :). Which is kind of funny/interesting because it is recommended to used":)" when indicating “not snark.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/32 "2015-11-18T20:37:21Z")
> [@IDtenT\_Error](#): > > The less respectable ones would have this one: > > [Crook (surname) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crook_%28surname%29) In my circle of friends and colleagues, there is a Greedy, a Swindler, and a Crook. (Which, of course, leads to the obvious joke about them becoming partners in a law firm together.) ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/33 "2015-11-19T16:29:44Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Are the surnames Norton, Sutton, Easton, and Weston essentially just the compass points plus _-town/-ton_? I was also thinking that if you threw in the “-man” variants, the preponderance of West would probably diminish… I would guess: Eastman: Pretty common surname Norman: Less common Westman, Southman: Rare ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/34 "2015-11-19T16:32:57Z")
Pretty sure Norman is more common than Eastman. But that’s because of the Normans, whose name comes from “north man” but had taken on a new meaning by the time it was used to refer to them. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/35 "2015-11-20T04:15:08Z")
Is it possible that the founding West family or families (which probably just numbered a handful of people at some point) simply had more children at an early stage; this effect is greatly magnified after as many as 50 generations? This is one of my favorite SD columns:not sure if it is relevant. > **[2, 4, 8, 16 … how can you always have MORE ancestors as you go back in time?](https://www.straightdope.com/21341588/2-4-8-16-how-can-you-always-have-more-ancestors-as-you-go-back-in-time)** Perhaps at one point, there were simply 6-7 West families as opposed to 4-5 Norths and 2-3 Easts and Souths. I have thought the same about colors, some are common surnames: White, Black, Brown, Gray, and variants of Red like Reed. However, I have never met a Mr. and Mrs. Blue! (Of course, these probably had more to do with hair and complexion than any other factor). ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/36 "2015-11-20T04:20:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > \*Surnames, being intended to distinguish people, were generally based on unusual characteristics. You couldn’t very well be William of Salisbury _in_ Salisbury, when there were 400 other Williams in Salisbury, but if you moved to Bath, you could be the only William of Salisbury. Yes you could, IF you got the name because you represented/managed Salisbury. It’s how my family got our lastname, how the Borjas or the Bourbons got their own. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/37 "2015-11-20T04:25:16Z")
> [@syncrolecyne](#): > > Is it possible that the founding West family or families (which probably just numbered a handful of people at some point) simply had more children at an early stage; this effect is greatly magnified after as many as 50 generations? This is pretty much what I was saying in post #16. Things that occur at equal frequencies at the start can come to have large differences over time due to nothing more than random chance. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/38 "2015-11-20T10:19:07Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > This is pretty much what I was saying in post #16. Things that occur at equal frequencies at the start can come to have large differences over time due to nothing more than random chance. Well the frequencies weren’t established yet , as we might need to redo them with Norton, Easton and Sutton. There are a lot of Norton’s… But oh well, they aren’t English names, they are Scottish and Irish… so I guess far fewer… So the frequencies won’t be changed so much. And there can be a good reason that isn’t easy to see without knowledge… The suggestion is in a previous post - the prosperous and more populated areas of south east of England would have less reasons to give anyone the name North, East or South… But lots of reasons to give someone the name “West”. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/39 "2015-11-20T10:35:15Z")
> [@syncrolecyne](#): > > I have thought the same about colors, some are common surnames: White, Black, Brown, Gray, and variants of Red like Reed. However, I have never met a Mr. and Mrs. Blue! (Of course, these probably had more to do with hair and complexion than any other factor). Green(e) is a fairly common surname. I doubt it has anything to do with all those people who have green hair. Blue is fairly rare, but there was a baseball player named Vida Blue back in the day. I can’t recall ever hearing of people named with the other four basic color words (orange, pink, purple, yellow). ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717/40 "2015-11-20T12:26:06Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > I can’t recall ever hearing of people named with the other four basic color words ( **orange** , pink, purple, yellow). I think I once heard of some dude called Williamof? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-west-such-a-common-surname-compared-to-east-north-or-south/737717.md?page=3)