# Why isn’t heroin used for lethal injections? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [October 30, 2015, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159 "2015-10-30T06:14:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/41 "2015-11-02T01:27:15Z")
> [@dtmuller](#): > > I’m from Michigan, the first state to abolish capital punishment–we’ve never had it–and I’m quite happy to keep it that way. > > But now consider this. It’s generally the folks on the right who favor capital punishment, and those on the left who oppose it. But the folks on the left are the ones most likely to favor assisted suicide, which they see as a humane, dignified way to let someone go quietly and peacefully. If I were in favor of capital punishment, I’d just specify that the means of execution should be the same means used for assisted suicide. That would pretty well pull the rug out on any argument that the means (as opposed to the punishment itself) is cruel. > > I’ve never understood why they’ve never tried to go that route. The methods used for physician-assisted suicide can’t be used for capital punishment for the simple reason that physicians refuse to assist in executions. This whole question would be a lot easier if doctors were willing and able to help but, as Cecil mentioned, the AMA forbids it. And anyway I imagine many if not most doctors would have moral objections to personally assisting in an execution, regardless of their opinion of capital punishment in the abstract… the Hippocratic Oath and all. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/42 "2015-11-02T05:16:54Z")
> [@cardinal\_fang](#): > > [Link](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3260/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections). > > I’m having a hard time parsing Slug’s illustration. Is this a (condemned) prisoner in the lower-left half of the picture (wearing stripes)? How exactly is he oriented? Working from right to left, I presume the four strands are his hair, the long celery-like stick his nose, and the squares next to that are…? His teeth? A mustache? Further left is beyond me altogether. The funnel I get, but what’s it attached to? Is the cloud thing his lips? A wad of cotton? Is the slash his mouth? A dribble of rat poison? How is this even a lethal injection? The guy on the right is pouring rat poison into a funnel. For that matter, is he even a legit executioner? He looks kind of shifty. > > I feel like I’m missing something. > > Not even gonna mention the lead pipe. I think _I_ must be missing something, because it appears that every single contibution to this thread has completely ignored the OP’s questions. [ul] [li]_Is this a (condemned) prisoner in the lower-left half of the picture (wearing stripes)?_ That’s my guess.[/li][li]_How exactly is he oriented?_ Head tilted backwards towards the guy in the hat.[/li][li]_Working from right to left, I presume the four strands are his hair, the long celery-like stick his nose, and the squares next to that are…? His teeth? A mustache?_ My money is on mustache. Also his eyes are between his hair and nose, but are barely there - looks like they are tightly shut.[/li][li]_Further left is beyond me altogether. The funnel I get, but what’s it attached to? Is the cloud thing his lips? A wad of cotton? Is the slash his mouth?_ The slash looks like the mouth, but I have no idea about the cloud thing.[/li][li]_How is this even a lethal injection?_ Agreed - very odd choice of illustration.[/li][li]_Not even gonna mention the lead pipe._ Probably best not to. Although perhaps if you are an illustrator who needs to label bits of your drawing so that people know what they are, then you may have chosen the wrong profession.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/43 "2015-11-02T16:27:55Z")
Why not something along the lines of hypoxia induced by lowered air pressure, similar to what happens in a plane that loses cabin pressure? Entire plane crews are sometimes incapacitated in a matter of seconds. Remember Payne Stewart? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/44 "2015-11-02T18:37:32Z")
It also seems like people didn’t read the article. Inert gas from people who don’t breathe deeply can cause convulsions, too. As for the illustration, I see it (from right to left) hair, closed eyes, big elongated pig snout, mustache, frowning mouth with funnel in it. I do not know why the bottle is labeled as rat poison, but I assume it is liquid in reference to cough syrup. ---
**Author:** ![Chadafice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chadafice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chadafice)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/45 "2015-11-02T18:47:10Z")
My views on execution aren’t focussed on moral issues. I simply feel that any goal that people attempt to attain through execution can be reached more easily my other means. If you want to really make someone feel awful about their choices, then lock them in a dark cell for the rest of eternity. If you claim that killing the prisoners saves money on food, you are less than correct. After all of the lawsuits are through, you’ve spend way more on lawyers than you could ever spend on cheap prison food. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/46 "2015-11-02T21:43:46Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It also seems like people didn’t read the article. Inert gas from people who don’t breathe deeply can cause convulsions, too. They’re talking about the gas chamber, as used in California in the past; they used some sort of sulfuric acid liquid/potassium cyanide tablet mechanism where they’re combined in the chamber, and the gas vapors visibly rise up around the condemned and can be smelled. The thing with inert gas is that you can’t tell when it’s even being administered, unlike the gas chamber method. ---
**Author:** ![CoastalMaineiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@CoastalMaineiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoastalMaineiac)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/47 "2015-11-03T02:12:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why should society aspire to be more humane than those who kill? What, has this human concept of society suddenly been personified and given the ability to think and aspire? Why should you or I aspire to be more humane than those who kill? That’s what you’re asking, because society is nothing more than a collection of individual “yous” and “I’s”. My answer to that question? Because I have no desire to lower myself to the level of those who kill. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/48 "2015-11-03T14:24:19Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > So you’re saying: make 'em grow old and die in prison. > > Me too. Like you say, that’s a worse punishment than execution. If execution is too cruel, and life in prison is worse, then life in prison is more cruel than execution and we can’t do that either. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/49 "2015-11-03T15:59:52Z")
> [@waddlingeagle](#): > > The Left are a death cult that wants to kill the innocent while saving murderers. They have an inverted value system that justifies organized robbery while punishing people who actually work. There is really something wrong with these people – and something even more wrong that the rest of us tolerate it. The right is a death cult that wants to kill everyone, including the innocent, except fetuses and zygotes. For Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![tafowler87](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f07891/32.png) [@tafowler87](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tafowler87)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/50 "2015-11-05T14:09:36Z")
Besides the fact that Heroin is illegal for many reasons, overdoses are inconsistent in nature and most likely not instant (categorizing the drug as a substance with equal risk factor as any other lethal injection ever used or proposed). ---
**Author:** ![psythe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@psythe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psythe)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/51 "2015-11-06T13:51:04Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > Well of course it is. Although they are mostly self administered and accidental. Actually I suspect that more of them than not are administered by others, and if death isn’t officially intended it is certainly expected: google “double effect” to find the means by which doctors have been sidestepping the euthanasia legality issue for years. (I’d far rather that this was what happened than the more right wing alternative - as far as the left wing alternative is concerned giving the patient more freedom is great in theory, but I’d have concerns about it being abused by some families) ---
**Author:** ![psythe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@psythe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psythe)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/52 "2015-11-06T13:58:20Z")
> [@alphareign](#): > > Why not just use a combination of propofol, oxymorphone, and potassium cyanide? Because the manufacturers of proprofol (and presumably oxymorphone) are nervy about being associated with capital punishment and refuse to sell the drugs to states which might use them for this. I am rather surprised that there aren’t any small US based companies with a pro-capital punishment board that would be happy to produce and supply them (or import them from China!) ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/53 "2015-11-07T04:27:37Z")
How about using a [4 barrel shotgun to the head](http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRlBNyADYHW8a9O6Re2QlydW0vcqhfcYXdjDltC7lJC-xSRD_6oPhv_m68) with all 4 barrels opened up? An anesthesiologist could put them into a peaceful deep sleep first. Then \*\* BLAM!\*\* A wee bit messy, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Kiwi-Ian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9fc348/32.png) [@Kiwi-Ian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiwi-Ian)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/54 "2015-11-10T01:47:39Z")
1. One of the concerns with hanging was the “long walk to the gallows” followed by the hood, prayers, noose etc. Apparently in England and Wales, since the time executions were made private affairs, the gallows were actually next door to the condemned cell, the prisoner went through the door whereupon the executioner and his assistant bound his legs and hands with cuffs, slipped the hood and noose over his head, everyone stood back and the trap opened. If the time from door opening to death (by a broken neck) exceeded 8 seconds, the hangman was considered incompetent - and that rarely happened as his pay depended on competence. This method was kept secret so that its speed was a surprise to the condemned and only revealed when capital punishment was ended 50 years ago. This compares to the period of up to an hour when the condemned man in the US can be sitting around waiting for actual death while IVs are fitted, last minute appeals are denied, witnesses are positioned, arms and legs secured, drugs actually take effect etc. 1. Why worry about a heroin dose, just give them say 10 x normal lethal dose and death will be painless and they’ll be too high to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/55 "2015-11-13T18:22:24Z")
> [@bup](#): > > A lot of people on this board know I’m against the death penalty (because I’m convinced the justice system convicts factually innocent people too often), but I just want to throw this out there - Cecil said “Heroin overdose can cause difficulty in breathing, one of your less pleasant experiences.” > > If it’s _enough_ heroin (or morphine, same diff), the stoned/condemned will not miss the breathing and not experience discomfort. Morphine is sometimes giving to people who are in their last minutes on this earth, precisely because when breathing becomes too difficult, the brain will not recognize that horrible, torturous reflexive ‘need to breathe,’ nor oxygen starvation. I’ve seen this method applied twice. Even though these people were already near death: the process took hours, and it was still pretty torturous. I can easily see it developing into a horrible ordeal when you’re actually trying to kill a healthy person with morphine. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/56 "2015-11-15T04:55:40Z")
Firing squad seems like a quick and painless method, 2 shots to the heart 2 to the head and there won’t be enough time for the brain to feel anything let alone pain. The difficulty I have is not the execution but the effects on the executioner. No sane person wants to kill someone and the effects on the executioner can be horrific. Sure you could get someone like percy from the green mile but does anyone think that guy should be allowed to live outside a state mental hospital? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/57 "2015-11-15T13:26:44Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > How about using a [4 barrel shotgun to the head](http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRlBNyADYHW8a9O6Re2QlydW0vcqhfcYXdjDltC7lJC-xSRD_6oPhv_m68) with all 4 barrels opened up? > > An anesthesiologist could put them into a peaceful deep sleep first. Then \*\* BLAM!\*\* > > A wee bit messy, I suppose. Good luck finding an anesthesiologist would participate in an execution. It violates their code of ethics. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/58 "2015-11-18T16:51:16Z")
The world of executors is weird. E.g., when hanging someone, it’s considered a major mistake to have too long a drop and have the perp’s head popped off. Something that would seem to ensure a rapid death. There are a lot of surefire ways to take someone out. But all of them seem to be ruled out due to current standards concerning grisliness. So, we go the other way. Minimize grisliness. And botched, after botched execution results. The lethal injection messes highlight this. I find it odd that Cecil didn’t cite the more recent case of [Clayton Lockett](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Clayton_Lockett) in Oklahoma. This is the “state of the art” in this field. If you can’t stand the horror of doing this right, then maybe you shouldn’t do it at all. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/59 "2015-11-18T21:01:56Z")
> [@Kiwi-Ian](#): > > 1. One of the concerns with hanging was the “long walk to the gallows” followed by the hood, prayers, noose etc. Apparently in England and Wales, since the time executions were made private affairs, the gallows were actually next door to the condemned cell, the prisoner went through the door whereupon the executioner and his assistant bound his legs and hands with cuffs, slipped the hood and noose over his head, everyone stood back and the trap opened. If the time from door opening to death (by a broken neck) exceeded 8 seconds, the hangman was considered incompetent - and that rarely happened as his pay depended on competence. > > This method was kept secret so that its speed was a surprise to the condemned and only revealed when capital punishment was ended 50 years ago. > > This compares to the period of up to an hour when the condemned man in the US can be sitting around waiting for actual death while IVs are fitted, last minute appeals are denied, witnesses are positioned, arms and legs secured, drugs actually take effect etc. I sort of like the idea of having ALL death row cells fitted with a system that could flood the cell with nitrogen, thereby administering the nitrogen asphyxiation method of execution. You’d have to make it not make any weird noises or smells, but there would be NO walk to the gallows at all- not even any awareness that they’re being executed. They’d be sitting there tending their pruno, and \. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159/60 "2015-11-27T14:16:54Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > How about this then: We execute people by casting 'em into an industrial-size wood chipper. Fast and painless – or at worst, it’ll only hurt for a half a second or so. Assuming we cast the condemned in head-first. > > Thus, between the blood-thirsty make-em-suffer sadists and the wimpy squeamish bleeding-heart wusses, all that remains to be debated is whether to throw 'em in head first or feet first! Interestingly you have stumbled on one of sadam’s favored methods of execution if you weren’t too bad you went head first otherwise it was feet first and you were lowered more slowly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isn-t-heroin-used-for-lethal-injections/736159.md?page=4)