# Why isn't cheesecake a pie? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 8, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459 "2005-03-08T00:11:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RadioWave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/91b2a8/32.png) [@RadioWave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioWave)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/1 "2005-03-08T00:11:09Z")
[third grade voice] Webster’s defines pie as a dessert consisting of a filling in a pastry shell […]. [/third grade voice] A cake is “a sweet baked food made from a dough or batter”. A cheesecake is not made from a dough or batter, it is a filling in a pastry shell. Ergo, it is not a cake. It is a pie. Why isn’t cheesecake called cheesepie? ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/2 "2005-03-08T00:17:47Z")
As I recall, the word “cake” goes back at least as far as the 15th century. It initially described any round, flat confection. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/3 "2005-03-08T00:29:24Z")
Do you really think anyone went to the dictionary before naming it, on the off-chance someone a century later might split hairs about it? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/4 "2005-03-08T00:47:09Z")
As a general rule: I like cake, I don’t like pie And I like cheese(?) So it must be a cake. Works for me. (exceptions, sheaperds pie, pizza pie and fruit cake, YMMV) ---
**Author:** ![hermann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b487fb/32.png) [@hermann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hermann)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/5 "2005-03-08T00:51:45Z")
When come back, bring cheesecake. Naaaw…just doesn’t sound the same. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/6 "2005-03-08T01:42:37Z")
> [@RadioWave](#): > > [third grade voice]Webster’s defines pie as a dessert consisting of a filling in a pastry shell […].[/third grade voice]A cake is “a sweet baked food made from a dough or batter”. A cheesecake is not made from a dough or batter, it is a filling in a pastry shell. Ergo, it is not a cake. It is a pie. Why isn’t cheesecake called cheesepie? cake ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kk) n. 1. A sweet baked food made of flour, liquid, eggs, and other ingredients, such as raising agents and flavorings. Because it is a CAKE! The other ingredients being cheese etc. It is not (usually) in a shell but sits on a base of cookie crumbs, no sides. And it is called a cheese cake, because it is called a cheese cake, that’s what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/7 "2005-03-08T02:11:41Z")
I believe that Alton Brown described cheesecake as a custard on his show. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/8 "2005-03-08T02:33:58Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > I believe that Alton Brown described cheesecake as a custard on his show. Yes, but first he made the point that it was pie! ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/9 "2005-03-08T03:50:02Z")
_Real_ cheesecake doesn’t have a crust. Headed to Great Debates in 3…2…1… ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/10 "2005-03-08T04:46:24Z")
> [@spingears](#): > > cake ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kk) > n. 1. A sweet baked food made of flour, liquid, eggs, and other ingredients, such as raising agents and flavorings. > > Because it is a CAKE! > The other ingredients being cheese etc. > It is not (usually) in a shell but sits on a base of cookie crumbs, no sides. > And it is called a cheese cake, because it is called a cheese cake, that’s what it is. There isn’t any flour or raising agents in a cheesecake. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/11 "2005-03-08T13:19:46Z")
Why isn’t Boston cream pie a cake? ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/12 "2005-03-08T13:31:12Z")
It’s because pie are round. Cake are square. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/13 "2005-03-08T13:33:33Z")
My guess would be because pies were originally savoury and the pastry was only a means to deliver the filling, so a cheesepie would be construed as some melted cheesy savoury delight. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/14 "2005-03-08T15:44:22Z")
Ricotta cheese pie is a pie even though it’s made very similarly to a cream cheese cheesecake. “Pastry shell” for a cheesecake? An abomination. Cheesecake should either have no crust or, yum, a sweet buttery graham cracker crust. Possibly even an Oreo crust. But a pastry shell crust, ick. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/15 "2005-03-08T15:49:18Z")
> [@](#): > > There isn’t any flour or raising agents in a cheesecake. Some “cakes” don’t have flour or raising agents either. Such as flourless chocolate cake. It’s still a cake though. ---
**Author:** ![robcaro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@robcaro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robcaro)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/16 "2005-03-08T16:01:45Z")
Look here: [http://www.absoluterecipes.com/desserts-rec/new-york-cheesecake.html](http://www.absoluterecipes.com/desserts-rec/new-york-cheesecake.html) It is a cake! ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/17 "2005-03-08T17:47:58Z")
Referring to the dish that the OP is talking about as “cheesecake” goes back to at least the [seventeenth century](http://www.godecookery.com/engrec/engrec76.html). A recipe for such a food, however, goes all the way back to the [fourteenth century](http://www.godecookery.com/goderec/grec16.htm). I seem to remember finding a recipe for something called a “chessecake” but the heck if I can find it now. The use of the word “cake” to mean a sweet, bready food goes all the way back to Chaucer and probably before. “Pie” (pye, actually) was in use at the same time, though generally seems to refer to a meat pie rather than a sweet one. As for why it’s called cheesecake, I’d imagine it would have something to do with a pie being savoury, rather than sweet, as **don’t ask** said. That and the fact that language has never played by dictionary rules. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Westphal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9bd4f/32.png) [@James\_Westphal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James_Westphal)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/18 "2005-03-08T22:08:49Z")
It sure as hell isn’t a PIE. A pastry shell (part of OP’s definition of pie) implies that there’s a top, like in most pies (‘shell’ is defined by M-W as a thin, usually spherical layer or surface enclosing a space or surrounding an object). How many pies have the fruit right out there, with no top crust? None, as the OED calls this treat a custard (though the word has come to mean something else), but limits a custard to having a meat or fruit filling. Cheese is neither (duh). So far, technically, it’s not a pie, or a custard. The OP doesn’t define cake, just pie (good going?). Here’s what the OED calls cake - > [@](#): > > A baked mass of bread or substance of similar kind, distinguished from a loaf or other ordinary bread, either by its form or by its composition: > In England, cakes (in sense a) have long been treated as fancy bread, and sweetened or flavoured; hence, the current sense: > > A composition having a basis of bread, but containing additional ingredients, as butter, sugar, spices, currants, raisins, etc. At first, this was a cake also in form, but it is no longer necessarily so, being now made of any serviceable, ornamental, or fanciful shape; e.g. a tea-, plum-, wedding-cake, etc. - which is pretty goddamn general, and I would interpret to include cheesecake or practically any other sweet baked mass. Considering the [many varieties](http://images.google.com/images?q=cheesecake&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&rls=GGLB,GGLB:1969-53,GGLB:en&sa=N&tab=wi) cheesecake can come in, it looks pretty damn cakelike a fair amount of the time. It’s certainly no pastry, as it’s not made of "_flour moistened with water or milk and kneaded, dough; esp. (now only) with addition of butter, lard, suet, or the like."_ If that’s not good enough, be nice and general and call it cheese confection. VERY APPEALING!@ ---
**Author:** ![BlackNGold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BlackNGold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackNGold)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/19 "2005-03-08T23:24:23Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > I believe that Alton Brown described cheesecake as a custard on his show. Paraphrasing: Alien Elvis: It’s a pie AB: What _kind_ of pie AE: Custard Pie ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-cheesecake-a-pie/293459/20 "2005-03-09T01:36:04Z")
> [@missbunny](#): > > Some “cakes” don’t have flour or raising agents either. Such as flourless chocolate cake. It’s still a cake though. How’s it made? There are good reasons to think of cheesecakes as custard pies. You don’t mix them like a cake batter (i.e. cream butter and sugar, alternate adding the wet and dry ingredients). Also, you don’t bake it like a cake. Most cheesecake recipes call for baking it in a water bath, just like creme brulee or creme caramel or any other baked custard.