# Why isn't Europe enough for the white race?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [December 28, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438 "2012-12-28T23:01:52Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/1 "2012-12-28T23:01:52Z")
Whenever I see these people who talk about the need for white power (under whatever name) in North America, I’m offended.
If you want to defend the white world, go back to Europe. If you want to defend “Anglo-Saxon civilization,” go back to England or something. When I was a kid, you’d sometimes hear, “go back to Africa,” directed at “blacks” (who probably had more indigenous North American ancestry than the whites saying it). Why not go back to Europe if your lily white whiteness is so important to you? Seriously, how many continents do white people need?
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/2 "2012-12-28T23:06:14Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> Why not go back to Europe if your lily white whiteness is so important to you?
'Cause Europe is getting a little **brown** lately?
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### Author:  [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/3 "2012-12-28T23:07:57Z")
Well, Europe is currently being overrun by towelheads and sand niggers, too, you know. Them eeevil Muslims breed just like flies. Poor, poor Aryans, they don’t even have one continent they can call their own. Clearly taking a last-ditch stand in Idaho is the white race’s only hope!
(Need I add there aren’t enough eyerolls in the Universe to describe what I think of this so-called “thought”?)
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/4 "2012-12-28T23:09:00Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> Seriously, how many continents do white people need?
Continents are like potato chips; can’t stop with just one!
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/5 "2012-12-28T23:10:30Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> Seriously, how many continents do white people need?
[All of them.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_Diaries)
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### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/6 "2012-12-28T23:26:49Z")
They were just looking for some spicy food.
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### Author:  [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/7 "2012-12-28T23:41:35Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> Whenever I see these people who talk about the need for white power (under whatever name) in North America, I’m offended.
>
> If you want to defend the white world, go back to Europe. If you want to defend “Anglo-Saxon civilization,” go back to England or something. When I was a kid, you’d sometimes hear, “go back to Africa,” directed at “blacks” (who probably had more indigenous North American ancestry than the whites saying it). Why not go back to Europe if your lily white whiteness is so important to you? Seriously, how many continents do white people need?
If you were to ask such an Aryan / White Power advocate, I suspect the answer would be along the lines that European whites had become a race of weak faggoty socialists, allowing Muslims to take over their nations, and thus unworthy of bearing the standard of Anglo-Saxon civilization. But, that’s just a guess.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/8 "2012-12-28T23:57:26Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> Why not go back to Europe if your lily white whiteness is so important to you?
What makes you think Europe would take them?
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/9 "2012-12-29T00:43:48Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> Whenever I see these people who talk about the need for white power (under whatever name) in North America, I’m offended.
How brave of you to take such an unusual and iconoclastic position. Certainly the SDMB is a risky place to stake out an anti-racist thesis.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/10 "2012-12-29T00:46:56Z")
Next up: Telemarketers are not good people!
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### Author:  [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/11 "2012-12-29T00:49:01Z")
It was always a race – an arms race, really. Whoever industrialized first was going to colonize the world. “Manifest destiny” without the moral context: simply a fact of history. The Chinese might well have pulled it off. The Aztecs, not so likely. The Zuni are right out.
You’re taking issue with human nature. Give European civilization a _little_ credit, for learning some of the lessons of colonialism, and (gradually and reluctantly) withdrawing from it, permitting self-rule to flourish.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/12 "2012-12-29T00:51:13Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> If you want to defend “Anglo-Saxon civilization,” go back to England or something.
England is for the Celts. Or the Picts. The Angles and the Saxons should go back to the continent, to that little Angle of a land and Saxony (or wherever the Saxons came from).
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/13 "2012-12-29T01:13:18Z")
> [@Trinopus](#):
>
> The Chinese might well have pulled it off.
Nah. They turned out to be [culturally inhibited](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_he) or something.
> [@](#):
>
> In 1424, the Yongle Emperor died. His successor, the Hongxi Emperor (r. 1424–1425), stopped the voyages during his short reign. Zheng He made one more voyage during the reign of Hongxi’s son, the Xuande Emperor (r. 1426–1435) but, after that, the voyages of the Chinese treasure ship fleets were ended. Xuande believed his father’s decision to halt the voyages had been meritorious and thus “there would be no need to make a detailed description of his grandfather’s sending Zheng He to the Western Ocean.”[17] The voyages “were contrary to the rules stipulated in the Huang Ming Zuxun” (皇明祖訓), the dynastic foundation documents laid down by the Hongwu Emperor:[17]
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Some far-off countries pay their tribute to me at much expense and through great difficulties, all of which are by no means my own wish. Messages should be forwarded to them to reduce their tribute so as to avoid high and unnecessary expenses on both sides.[32]
>
> They further violated longstanding Confucian principles. They were only made possible by (and therefore continued to represent) a triumph of the Ming’s eunuch faction over the administration’s scholar-bureaucrats.[16] Upon Zheng He’s death and his faction’s fall from power, his successors sought to minimize him in official accounts, along with continuing attempts to destroy all records related to the Jianwen Emperor or the manhunt to find him.[17]
>
> Although unmentioned in the official dynastic histories, Zheng He probably died during the treasure fleet’s last voyage.[16] Although he has a tomb in China, it is empty: he was buried at sea.[33]
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/14 "2012-12-29T01:19:02Z")
> [@Trinopus](#):
>
> It was always a race – an arms race, really. Whoever industrialized first was going to colonize the world. “Manifest destiny” without the moral context: simply a fact of history. The Chinese might well have pulled it off. The Aztecs, not so likely. The Zuni are right out.
>
> You’re taking issue with human nature.
I agree with **BrainGlutton** ; it wasn’t human nature. Not all societies are equally expansionistic or aggressive. Quite a few societies simply wouldn’t have _bothered_ to create such worldwide empires; it wouldn’t have interested them. Nor have most societies felt the same need to remake everyone into a copy of themselves Christian/Islamic style; even if they’d gone out and conquered, they wouldn’t have bothered with _cultural_ imperialism.
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### Author:  [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/15 "2012-12-29T01:24:24Z")
Antarctica is the whitest continent. Hell, even all the birds wear tuxedos.
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### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/16 "2012-12-29T01:24:48Z")
I’d love to be European. They are more civilized than us Americans.
But to answer your question, we had the best weapons, the best technology and he who has the gold makes the rules. But fret not, in this century the east asians will eat all our lunch. Supposedly by 2050 the economy of China will be as big as the EU & US combined (70 trillion).
That is assuming China maintains its levels of growth, no idea if that’ll happen.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/17 "2012-12-29T01:32:53Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#):
>
> But fret not, in this century the east asians will eat all our lunch. Supposedly by 2050 the economy of China will be as big as the EU & US combined (70 trillion).
>
> That is assuming China maintains its levels of growth, no idea if that’ll happen.
I wouldn’t put much credence in such a long term economic prediction. Just imagine trying to predict modern China in 1970.
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/18 "2012-12-29T01:43:09Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> I agree with **BrainGlutton** ; it wasn’t human nature. Not all societies are equally expansionistic or aggressive. Quite a few societies simply wouldn’t have _bothered_ to create such worldwide empires; it wouldn’t have interested them. Nor have most societies felt the same need to remake everyone into a copy of themselves Christian/Islamic style; even if they’d gone out and conquered, they wouldn’t have bothered with _cultural_ imperialism.
It also would have meant a lack of moral universalism and as a result little care for human rights violations, racism, sexism, slavery, binding of women’s feet etc. in other countries.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/19 "2012-12-29T02:05:02Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> It also would have meant a lack of moral universalism and as a result little care for human rights violations, racism, sexism, slavery, binding of women’s feet etc. in other countries.
Oh please; the Europeans slaughtered and enslaved their way across the world, and their “morality” was no better and often worse than that of the local people. Some bunch of _conquistadores_ didn’t care about human rights; they cared about looting, destroying, raping, enslaving and killing.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/20 "2012-12-29T02:42:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> Oh please; the Europeans slaughtered and enslaved their way across the world, and their “morality” was no better and often worse than that of the local people. Some bunch of _conquistadores_ didn’t care about human rights; they cared about looting, destroying, raping, enslaving and killing.
True, but they **also** cared about saving souls; the conquistador cleared the path for the missionary. Imperialism was often schizophrenic like that. As [Orwell wrote in 1942](http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300011h.html#part17):
> [@](#):
>
> Kipling spent the later part of his life in sulking, and no doubt it was political disappointment rather than literary vanity that account for this. Somehow history had not gone according to plan. After the greatest victory she had ever known, Britain was a lesser world power than before, and Kipling was quite acute enough to see this. The virtue had gone out of the classes he idealized, the young were hedonistic or disaffected, the desire to paint the map red had evaporated. He could not understand what was happening, because he had never had any grasp of the economic forces underlying imperial expansion. It is notable that Kipling does not seem to realize, any more than the average soldier or colonial administrator, that an empire is primarily a money-making concern. Imperialism as he sees it is a sort of forcible evangelizing. You turn a Gatling gun on a mob of unarmed ‘natives’, and then you establish ‘the Law’, which includes roads, railways and a court-house. He could not foresee, therefore, that the same motives which brought the Empire into existence would end by destroying it. It was the same motive, for example, that caused the Malayan jungles to be cleared for rubber estates, and which now causes those estates to be handed over intact to the Japanese. The modern totalitarians know what they are doing, and the nineteenth-century English did not know what they were doing. Both attitudes have their advantages, but Kipling was never able to move forward from one into the other. His outlook, allowing for the fact that after all he was an artist, was that of the salaried bureaucrat who despises the ‘box-wallah’ and often lives a lifetime without realizing that the ‘box-wallah’ calls the tune.
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