# Why isn't Europe enough for the white race? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438 "2012-12-28T23:01:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/21 "2012-12-29T02:45:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > True, but they **also** cared about saving souls; the conquistador cleared the path for the missionary. Yes; part of why they were both so expansionist, and so destructive. They weren’t just conquering for profit; they actively were trying to utterly erase the local culture so it could be replaced with a Christian one. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/22 "2012-12-29T03:36:08Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Yes; part of why they were both so expansionist, and so destructive. “The missionaries go forth to Christianize the savages - as if the savages weren’t dangerous enough already.” - Edward Abbey ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/23 "2012-12-29T04:04:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > England is for the Celts. Or the Picts. The Angles and the Saxons should go back to the continent, to that little Angle of a land and Saxony (or wherever the Saxons came from). Picts were Celts, but they weren’t from what is now England. The word you want is “Brythons,” many of whom are in fact still there, e.g. the Cornish. Of course, the old-fashioned Victorian racists considered them degenerate when compared to the Anglo-Saxons. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/24 "2012-12-29T07:41:05Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > But to answer your question, we had the best weapons, the best technology and he who has the gold makes the rules. But fret not, in this century the east asians will eat all our lunch. “All your lunch are belong to us”? ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/25 "2012-12-29T09:05:43Z")
[quote=“foolsguinea, post:1, topic:645438”] Whenever I see these people who talk about the need for white power (under whatever name) in North America, I’m offended. QUOTE] Does anyone else you know see these people, or is it just you? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/26 "2012-12-29T10:11:39Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > How brave of you to take such an unusual and iconoclastic position. Certainly the SDMB is a risky place to stake out an anti-racist thesis. Thank you, **RickJay** , my first (maybe only) belly laugh of the day. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/27 "2012-12-29T10:22:06Z")
> [@Randy Newman](#): > > The Great Nations of Europe had gathered on the shore > they’d conquered what was behind them and now they wanted more > so they looked to the mighty ocean and took to the western sea > The great nations of europe in the 16th century > > Hide your wives and daughters, hide the groceries too > The great nations of europe comin through Says it all really. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/28 "2012-12-29T10:31:29Z")
SmilinJack… where are you? This thread seems like it would be right up your alley. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/29 "2012-12-29T10:48:55Z")
> [@nachtmusick](#): > > > [@foolsguinea](#): > > > > Whenever I see these people who talk about the need for white power (under whatever name) in North America, I’m offended. > > Does anyone else you know see these people, or is it just you? Yes, unfortunately. Example: > [@Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/94): > > If the White Working Class does not step up to the plate and damn soon and take control of this country they can fawgetttttt about every thing they think America is, should be and is capable of being…because folks this country will go down the toilet if you let the minorities control its destiny. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/30 "2012-12-29T12:07:06Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Whenever I see these people who talk about the need for white power (under whatever name) in North America, I’m offended. > > If you want to defend the white world, go back to Europe. If you want to defend “Anglo-Saxon civilization,” go back to England or something. When I was a kid, you’d sometimes hear, “go back to Africa,” directed at “blacks” (who probably had more indigenous North American ancestry than the whites saying it). Why not go back to Europe if your lily white whiteness is so important to you? Seriously, how many continents do white people need? The history of mankind is pretty much a history of the strong taking advantage of the weak, and the capable outmaneuvering the less capable. This applies to locals everywhere; unfortunately most of them aren’t too good at it. So far, European civilization has tended to become highly popular with conquered locals, who find themselves OK with appendectomies, central air, and cell phones (not to mention indoor plumbing). In other words, most conquered peoples become “the white world” as fast as they can. This makes it unnecessary to “go back” anywhere. As it turns out, wherever whitey has showed up, the predominant culture–even among indigenous populations–skews heavily toward the “white world’s” way of life, and the locals become “white people” pretty much as fast as they can. Right now, it’s looking like “white people” (as a social construct) need all 7 continents, and possibly the moon. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/31 "2012-12-29T12:55:19Z")
Wow, a glaring conflation and a fantasy version of history. Modern technology is not the same as European civilization. The nations of the world didn’t become Chinese with the introduction of paper and gunpowder. Conquered peoples don’t “become white people” if they become the undercaste of a white empire. When I say whites, I don’t mean, “people who use air conditioning,” because that’s not what it means. I mean, people who identify as white and have a “white” phenotype, particularly in the context of white nationalism, white racism, etc. Do you think\*\* SmilinJack\*\* considers the line between “whites” and “Mexicans” their use of mobile phones? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/32 "2012-12-29T15:43:19Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > When I say whites, I don’t mean, “people who use air conditioning,” because that’s not what it means. I mean, people who identify as white and have a “white” phenotype, particularly in the context of white nationalism, white racism, etc. Do you think\*\* SmilinJack\*\* considers the line between “whites” and “Mexicans” their use of mobile phones? Really? Some of us consider that anybody who thinks “Mexicans” and “whites” to be mutually exclusive are too stupid to be let out without their handlers. Sadly, some of those morons are university professors… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/33 "2012-12-29T15:55:47Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > The history of mankind is pretty much a history of the strong taking advantage of the weak, and the capable outmaneuvering the less capable. This applies to locals everywhere; unfortunately most of them aren’t too good at it. Translation: you think brown people are stupid. Which we already knew you thought. > [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > So far, European civilization has tended to become highly popular with conquered locals, who find themselves OK with appendectomies, central air, and cell phones (not to mention indoor plumbing). That’s not “European civilization”, that’s technology; it’s especially not European civilization as of the colonial period. And considering all the effort and bloodshed that went on to drive them out, the conquered locals hated the guts of the European conquerors. And to this day in much of the world “Western” is considered a synonym for evil for that reason. > [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > In other words, most conquered peoples become “the white world” as fast as they can. As said, nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/34 "2012-12-29T16:06:24Z")
**Why isn’t Europe enough for the white race?** C’mon, you wouldn’t be asking that silly question if you’d been to Europe lately. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/35 "2012-12-29T17:20:32Z")
my bolding: > [@Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/94): > > because folks this country will **go down the toilet** if you let the minorities control its destiny. “We looked the other way too long. We’ve got to change our priorities And get all these minorities [Out of my water park](http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/256710/not-my-waterpark)” I thought that [might](http://southpark.wikia.com/wiki/Pee) be _apropos_ ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/36 "2012-12-29T17:44:46Z")
Mass immigration was great for the American Indian. Population rates are stabilising. As the world further develops I think we’re going to see the weakening of the nation state. That being said, I have no interest in living in a country where I am a racial minority (unless I choose to go live in said country). ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/37 "2012-12-29T17:47:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s not “European civilization”, that’s technology; it’s especially not European civilization as of the colonial period. And considering all the effort and bloodshed that went on to drive them out, the conquered locals hated the guts of the European conquerors. And to this day in much of the world “Western” is considered a synonym for evil for that reason.. Yet that doesn’t stop masses of people trying to move to European countries. Also, colonialism is often used by corrupt rulers to justify every awful they do or calamities that destroy their country due to their corrupt leadership. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/38 "2012-12-29T17:50:41Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Wow, a glaring conflation and a fantasy version of history. > > Modern technology is not the same as European civilization. The nations of the world didn’t become Chinese with the introduction of paper and gunpowder. > > Conquered peoples don’t “become white people” if they become the undercaste of a white empire. > > When I say whites, I don’t mean, “people who use air conditioning,” because that’s not what it means. I mean, people who identify as white and have a “white” phenotype, particularly in the context of white nationalism, white racism, etc. Do you think\*\* SmilinJack\*\* considers the line between “whites” and “Mexicans” their use of mobile phones? Really? In other threads, we learn “white” is a social construct. Inventions and advancements–including gunpowder–come from many capable parts of the world (though not typically so much from the conquered parts; there’s a reason they lose the conquering game). The strength (in my view) of western/european civilization has been its willingness to incorporate and amalgamate ideas, inventions and social structures–and people–from wherever it finds them and produce a clearly superior culture that almost everyone ends up wanting. Including freedom of expression, freedom from being bound to a historical caste, freedom to get rich, and freedom to not be judged by the color of one’s skin or the name of one’s family. There’s a reason the rest of the developing world puts western world-based cultures on the top of their list of countries to try and get into. It’s better. 🙂 (including the plumbing) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/39 "2012-12-29T17:54:55Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Whenever I see these people who talk about the need for white power (under whatever name) in North America, I’m offended. > > If you want to defend the white world, go back to Europe. If you want to defend “Anglo-Saxon civilization,” go back to England or something. When I was a kid, you’d sometimes hear, “go back to Africa,” directed at “blacks” (who probably had more indigenous North American ancestry than the whites saying it). Why not go back to Europe if your lily white whiteness is so important to you? Seriously, how many continents do white people need? I whole-heartedly support this pitting…er, debate. Whatever. Tell it! ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438/40 "2012-12-29T17:55:00Z")
It is better insofar as, objectively speaking, more people are trying to get in then get out. However, Europe benefits more from trade than from pillage which is why colonialism was doomed to fail. Indeed, we all will benefit from open markets and a free flowing of ideas. As the Arab Spring has shown, notions of liberty and freedom and human traits, not cultural or ethnic\* \*yes I am aware that the Arab Spring hasn’t gone as well as hoped but it’s a start, the ball is rolling in my opinion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-europe-enough-for-the-white-race/645438.md?page=3)