# Why isn't Hillary taking on Palin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 14, 2008, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509 "2008-09-14T00:40:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/21 "2008-09-14T20:10:30Z")
Hillary isn’t attacking Palin for several reasons. Either 1. Obama hasn’t asked her to. 2. She has been asked and refused to do it. I really think the answer is the first. Obama has seemed to be the type of guy who doesn’t really need or want surrogates out there to get his message across. If he asked Clinton to get out there and do some of the dirty work, then she probably would, but then that’d raise suspicion. Why is Hillary out there doing Obama’s dirty work? The problem with Obama using Hillary is that she is such a force now in the party that using her in such a role would seem strange. Hillary is above doing daily attack-dog work against Palin. And besides, having her attack Palin specifically is caving to the McCain logic that women voters don’t care about politics, just whether or not there is a woman on the ticket. Using Hillary to lure voters back to Obama is almost as insulting as assuming that they were lured away from Obama because Palin is a woman. I’m sure this is actually happening, but the majority would probably rather be treated as something other than a political pawn. The Palin thing needs to play out a bit. The truth of the matter is that she has yet to find a baseline in the court of public opinion. To be a public figure you have to go through a lot of vetting by the press etc. With Palin it’s gotta be super-intense because she was very unknown, and has done a lot of weird shit that needs to be uncovered. Obama probably feels that Palin’s position will naturally decline once her negatives get out there. Currently she has the highest negatives of anyone on either ticket. I think that the court of public opinion will eventually see her selection as a farce in the end. All it takes, again, all it takes is one little screwup and she’ll be a huge liability. She’s already shown she’s an inch deep on most issues outside of her comfort zone. Let’s just see how well she does the next couple of weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/22 "2008-09-14T20:15:05Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Why doesn’t Hillary take on Palin? > > Perhaps she’s on a well deserved vacation. She had been working 24/7 up untill her loss to Obama.Then she had to put in a couple weeks to appear to be losing graciously and show her support for the Dems. And then she finally had some time to withdraw from the spotlights. If I were her, I’d be taking some me and family time to catch my breath now the whirl wind is over. Hillary just kicked some McShame/Failin’ ASS at a rally for BOJO in Akron, Ohio! Just left the stage about 30 seconds ago. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/23 "2008-09-14T21:34:01Z")
> [@Malienation](#): > > The problem with Democrats is that they never seem to get a grasp that fighting back doesn’t mean one hard-hitting ad, then letting up (which I believe will happen). My guess is that they are laboring under the impression that one hard blow will convince the Pubbies to play nice. Not gonna happen. They have to hit and hit and keep hitting. When the Pub falls, kick. Ever hear the expression “never hit a man while he’s down?” In politics, that’s bullshit. In fact, it’s the best time to hit someone. Obama just released another ad, “His Administration” Ed ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/24 "2008-09-14T22:04:50Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Hillary just kicked some McShame/Failin’ ASS at a rally for BOJO in Akron, Ohio! Just left the stage about 30 seconds ago. You mean BOJB? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/25 "2008-09-14T23:52:18Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > As you yourself well know, right? If you’re accusing me of having demonized her, you’re absolutely [wrong](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=450867). > [@](#): > > Why should she do the very kind of thing she was being demonized _for_, just a few months ago? How does that work? I didn’t say she should. I just said it’s ridiculous to say that Palin has gotten anywhere near the garbage that Hillary has gotten. I didn’t say shit about what Hillary should do to Palin. Where are you getting that I did? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/26 "2008-09-15T01:11:50Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Hillary just kicked some McShame/Failin’ ASS at a rally for BOJO in Akron, Ohio! Just left the stage about 30 seconds ago. She’s making speeches at Bob Jones University now? I thought that was a GOP style of pandering. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/27 "2008-09-15T02:38:23Z")
> [@Merkwurdigliebe](#): > > . And besides, having her attack Palin specifically is caving to the McCain logic that women voters don’t care about politics, just whether or not there is a woman on the ticket. Using Hillary to lure voters back to Obama is almost as insulting as assuming that they were lured away from Obama because Palin is a woman. Right – it would look transparently as this being the “Women’s Team” match, something that was NOT timely taken advantage of right after the Palin announcement was made, which was the time to strike at how this was a cynical playing of the gender card and they would have never thought of it if HC had been out of the game early. By now it would look like they are stuck in the same loop. It’s supposed to be Biden’s job to face off v. Palin but in the aggravating way they have me accustomed to, the Dems seem to have been effectively intimidated by the whole “anything said against her is a low-blow personal attack” thing, that was so stupendously assisted by the scandal-seeking media. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/28 "2008-09-15T03:17:20Z")
Hillary has already endorsed Obama more enthusiastically and campaigned more for him than any previously beaten primary foe in presidential primary. Usually they just slink off and keep quiet until the next primaries. See Ford in 76 with Reagan and Carter and Kennedy in 80. Hillary doesn’t owe Obama a thing, and he is already significantly in her and Bill’s debt for the very enthusiastic support, although I doubt IOUs are the reason the Clinton’s are doing it. If Obama wanted Hillary out on the campaign trail, he would not have run against her. Maybe he thinks the current level of help is useful. The head of the ticket does not want to be overshadowed by someone already beaten or second on the ticket. Palin is currently beating McCain quite handily, worse than has ever been done before, and its either going to be a big hit or a big bust, but most likely a bust. Let’s face it, if we wanted to pick a pretty, sassy Tina Fey look alike, we could’ve picked Tina Fey and got someone a lot smarter and prettier and frankly more qualified. After all, she can write and produce. At least she plays a producer on 30 Rock. It would be like Reagan, but with a liberal chick. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/29 "2008-09-15T04:23:10Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > HRC is absolutely mortified (after all the Hillary has been through) that this dimwit from Alaska (who hardly has the credentials to be a delegate at a convention) could actually steal her legacy of becoming the first female U.S. President. > > That’s gotta hurt. Right, all the more reason for her to explain to the electorate just what it is she represents. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/30 "2008-09-15T06:26:03Z")
**Why isn’t Hillary taking on Palin?** Pretty much what **outlierrn** said. Hillary feels that the primary was stolen from her. She’s not going to do the cat fight bit. She may stump for Obama, but I really think she’s doing it for down-ticket dems. Google PUMA’s or Just Say No Deal for some insight into Hillary’s gung ho supporters. As you have seen the tide switch from Obama leading to Obama now trailing (at least in EV’s) a lot of that has to do with what I said to google. Governor Palin seems to have struck a chord in the Republicans **and in women generally** , which as someone upthread noted has nothing to do with her politics but more to do with her presence. She is a strong woman, who has made it in politics, she’s a reformer and has done quite a bit in her 10-12 years in politics. The McCain camp vetted her just fine; it was the Obama camp that failed to even put her on the radar, so they were caught unawares when she was announced, became panicky and flailed around and began hitting her with everything but the kitchen sink. She survived, and survived very well. The more the Obama camp (and friends) have thrown at her the better she has looked. If the Obama camp keeps it up they will definitely lose the election. The Obama camp has wasted 2 weeks doing nothing but losing points. They have been off-message from day one. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/31 "2008-09-15T06:29:37Z")
Cite that Hillary feels the nomination was stolen from her? The PUMA tards are a Republican front group, by the way. You ask them to enuciate specific policy issues they care about and they become as evasive as hell. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/32 "2008-09-15T07:54:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Cite that Hillary feels the nomination was stolen from her? > The PUMA tards are a Republican front group, by the way. You ask them to enuciate specific policy issues they care about and they become as evasive as hell. OK, I misspoke. The PUMA’s and Just Say No Deal folks feel that the primary election was stolen from Hillary. Hillary herself has not said that, but many in the aforementioned groups **think** Hillary feels that way. They may be right, but there is actually no proof. Still, I think the Puma movement and the general discontent with how Obama secured the nomination, plus the abandonment of the roll call vote, the ‘coronation’ at Mile High, etc., etc., are not sitting well with many of the Pumas and their cohorts. How many of them, I’m not sure, but there are a number of message boards, blogs, etc. and they at least sound like a lot. The movement of the electorate in the latest polls and some safe states moving into toss up territory points to something. Whether it is just Palin, and she is that exciting, or whether it’s a combination of Palin, Puma and the constant attacks on Palin, convention bounce or something else entirely I don’t know. Something is causing those numbers to shift. Polls later in the month may tell a different story, and we’ve yet to see the October surprise (by either side, I might add.) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/33 "2008-09-15T12:01:35Z")
Oh, blahblahblahblahblahblahbittercakes! Clinton herself abandoned the roll call vote. If she didn’t want that to happen all she had to say was “no”. There was no “coronation”…at least no more than any presidential candidate has done before. The Hillary dead-enders are a rump group. There’s no there there. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/34 "2008-09-15T12:41:08Z")
> [@PhiloVance](#): > > Still, I think the Puma movement and the general discontent with how Obama secured the nomination, You mean by the established rules? ---
**Author:** ![bluecanary](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bluecanary/32/3614_2.png) [@bluecanary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluecanary)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/35 "2008-09-15T13:35:05Z")
Because it would look like she is trying to undermine Biden. It’s _his_ job to take on Palin. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/36 "2008-09-15T15:53:25Z")
Hillary has been compaigning for Obama in Ohio. It just hasn’t been getting national coverage. But it’s been getting local coverage, which is just as important. [http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1119041&srvc=2008campaign&position=15](http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1119041&srvc=2008campaign&position=15) Ed ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/37 "2008-09-15T22:41:18Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > HRC is absolutely mortified (after all the Hillary has been through) that this dimwit from Alaska (who hardly has the credentials to be a delegate at a convention) could actually steal her legacy of becoming the first female U.S. President. > > That’s gotta hurt. What you mean to say is that HRC is absolutely mortified (after all the Hillary has been through) that a woman from Alaska who, unlike her, has made it politically on her own without riding on her husband’s coattails and didn’t have to kiss anybody’s rear end (including her own party) just might actually be more deserving of becoming the first female U.S. President. It’s gotta hurt to realize she’s had to compromise her principles and put up with her husband’s philandering and sexist attacks from her own party but still not get first prize. Oh, and you have to **have** something first before it can possibly be a “legacy”. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Cite that Hillary feels the nomination was stolen from her? > The PUMA tards are a Republican front group, by the way. You ask them to enuciate specific policy issues they care about and they become as evasive as hell Cite? ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/38 "2008-09-15T22:55:29Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I’m trying to figure out just when the faux outrage about the Tina Fey as Sarah Palin SNL skit that just aired will start. I’m not outraged. There’s no reason to be outraged about a mediocre sketch from mediocre performers on a show that should have been put out of its misery long ago. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Attacks on Palin only give her more publicity and play into the victim card. Now that’s the most perceptive comment on the subject I’ve read from a liberal on the board. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > You could show a video tape of Palin cutting up a baby with a chainsaw, and her defenders would be outraged at the “smear.” > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The PUMA _tards_ are a Republican front group, by the way Even though you know exactly why you shouldn’t do it, you just can’t restrain yourself from doing it. And the “tard” just reminds people of epithets thrown at Down Syndrome people, like Trig Palin. Pity. Oh, well. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/39 "2008-09-16T02:18:24Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I’m trying to figure out just when the faux outrage about the Tina Fey as Sarah Palin SNL skit that just aired will start. Oh, its started already. [http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/15/16441/6634/259/599765](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/15/16441/6634/259/599765) ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509/40 "2008-09-17T00:05:00Z")
> [@bluecanary](#): > > Because it would look like she is trying to undermine Biden. It’s _his_ job to take on Palin. I have the feeling Joe is biding his time on attacking Palin. In a recent TV interview I saw - but cannot cite - the talking head tried to goad Biden into ticking off Sarah’s weaknesses. He quite sensibly skirted the issue. Why should he tip his hand? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-hillary-taking-on-palin/463509.md?page=3)