# Why isn't Immigration a plank of the US Democratic Party? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 30, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245 "2011-04-30T01:44:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/21 "2011-05-23T00:07:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Doesn’t that just strengthen the argument? If you’ve got that many unemployed “real Americans”, and they still refuse to do the agricultural or landscaping or whatever work, then surely, there’s no chance “real Americans” would _ever_ do that kind of work. Ummmmm . . . I don’t think they are refusing to do the work. I think they are not being offered the jobs because illegal immigrants are cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/22 "2011-05-23T00:33:42Z")
Bullshit, the work has always been there. NOBODY but illegal immigrant will do it. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/23 "2011-05-23T00:39:45Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > I don’t understand why the immigration issue gets drawn on party lines. Whatever one party supports the other party reflexively opposes. There are very few things in the United States that have such broad-based support that everybody agrees on the proper course of action. It falls on you as a voter to determine which collection of ideas best suits your ideological bent. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/24 "2011-05-23T00:49:20Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Bullshit, the work has always been there. NOBODY but illegal immigrant will do it. At the wages offered: if day labor paid $100/hour, people would be dropping out of college to do it. I’m not saying it’s worth $100/hour, just that “will do it” or “won’t do it” is always relative to wages, never absolute. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/25 "2011-05-23T02:31:04Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > 1. The arguments for immigration (labor “white” people refuse to do) or reimplementing guest migrant programs don’t sound real good when unemployment is 9-11% in many states. In Phoenix, Arizona, most of the calls to INS come from legal residents (citizen and alien) because illegal immigration is competition for day labor. This. Sure, Obama is pushing immigration reform at the moment, but I suspect the Dems will just let it quietly die, just like they have on many occasions, and then blame the GOP for its demise. With the economy still in the dumps, there just isn’t much enthusiasm for this issue right now. Hell even in good times (like in 2005 and 2006), it’s a tough issue to gain traction for. And let’s face it, if the GOP put up a fight over Bush’s immigration plan, you can only imagine the shitstorm they’re going to raise over whatever ideas Obama puts forth. The only group of people really pressing for immigration reform right now (at least immigration reform that doesn’t involve heavily penalizing illegal immigrants) is Hispanics. And even for a lot of Hispanics, especially for this who are second or third generation and don’t really have much family left in the old country, it’s not really a make or break issue. If the Dems choose not to fight too hard for it, they’re not going to lose any sleep over it. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/26 "2011-05-23T03:04:49Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > In Phoenix, Arizona, most of the calls to INS come from legal residents (citizen and alien) because illegal immigration is competition for day labor. As opposed to what? Illegal aliens calling INS? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/27 "2011-05-23T03:05:18Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > I consider my self a Democrat, but I am probably closer to Libertarian. > > There is a problem with people living in the USA that are not here legally. > > Democrats apparently could care less. \* \*\* > > \*\*Why? \*\* [Votes](http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2011/04/open-borders-and-welfare-state.html). > [@](#): > > In the United States whereas only 35% of whites prefer raising taxes and expanding government, the figure is 65% for Hispanic immigrants and 66% for second-generation Hispanics. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/28 "2011-05-23T03:09:18Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > As opposed to what? Illegal aliens calling INS? That was a ridiculous statement. Clearly it was legal residents tryin to get jobs a day laborers making the calls to INS. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/29 "2011-05-23T03:09:33Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > I would have thought migration controls would be anathema to a libertarian. Nope, because you end up with a population who vote for [greater redistribution](http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2011/05/ethnic-diversity-and-size-of-government.html). > [@](#): > > Open Borders and Democracy will inevitably lead to a welfare state, as non-libertarian immigrants sooner or later become the majority of the voters and vote themselves benefits… > > Though ignored by proponents of the ethnic-diversity-and-redistribution, minorities also get to vote, and they vote overwhelmingly for the left. This effect is dominant when we are discussing free migration, because with open borders in a world where 700 million people have told Gallup they would like to migrate right now, sooner or later the immigrants will become the majority of voters and make the political preferences of the natives irrelevant. > > Pew recently conducted a large survey with lots of questions on economic and social issues. It shows as all other polls that African Americans and Hispanics minorities are far to the left of whites. While 12% of Non-Hispanic whites in America have views that Pew classifies as Libertarian, only 3% of American minorities are libertarian. As America becomes increasingly minority, it will become less libertarian. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/30 "2011-05-23T03:20:38Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > That was a ridiculous statement. Clearly it was legal residents tryin to get jobs a day laborers making the calls to INS. Really? I would think it’s far more likely that local residents would be calling to complain about gangs of grubby looking people congregating at parking lots or street corners while waiting for work. Or employers reporting competing employers to stop them from having an unfair advantage. Do you have a cite for what is so “clear”? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/31 "2011-05-23T03:26:59Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > [Votes](http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2011/04/open-borders-and-welfare-state.html). Nice cite. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/32 "2011-05-23T03:31:08Z")
Oh yes, another type of complaint that I would imagine is far more common than those from displaced day laborers – people complaining about illegals receiving undeserved government benefits like health care, schooling and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/33 "2011-05-23T17:19:42Z")
Quoth **Saint Cad** : > [@](#): > > Ummmmm . . . I don’t think they are refusing to do the work. I think they are not being offered the jobs because illegal immigrants are cheaper. How is there any difference between “illegal immigrants are cheaper” and “natives won’t do the work”? Anyone at all _could_ agree to work for the same wages that the immigrants agree to. They could, but they don’t, because to almost all natives, that amount of pay isn’t enough compensation for the work. In other words, they don’t want the job. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/34 "2011-05-24T00:20:37Z")
So the Democrats can “herd” the Hispanic vote toward their columns by always pulling the immigration card. Fortunately Hispanic voters increasingly (excepting the 2008 aberration) have become more concerned with other issues. As for me I’m pragmatic on illegal immigration. Those will skilled jobs, who are fairly Americanized, are college-educated, and otherwise useful can stay along with their immediate families. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/35 "2011-05-24T00:30:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Saint Cad** :How is there any difference between “illegal immigrants are cheaper” and “natives won’t do the work”? Anyone at all _could_ agree to work for the same wages that the immigrants agree to. They could, but they don’t, because to almost all natives, that amount of pay isn’t enough compensation for the work. In other words, they don’t want the job. I guess supply and demand doesn’t work in this case, huh? If there are jobs too shitty for people to take for the amount of money paid then the wages are too low. Immigrants will work for less for a number of reasons: they have fewer opportunities, the wage compared to home is high, their expectation for a standard of living is lower, and they often mail back a portion of their earnings to family in their home country where the dollar goes further. Sometimes immigrants will share a house with a large number of other workers to save money, knowing that when they return home they will live better with the dollars they earned. The minimum wage in this country is very low right now in constant dollars, and pretty much across the board low end jobs pay too little to allow one to support ones’ self, never mind a family. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/36 "2011-05-24T00:59:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Nice cite. :rolleyes: Why the snark? Are you disputing Sanandaji’s figures? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/37 "2011-05-24T01:02:43Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > So the Democrats can “herd” the Hispanic vote toward their columns by always pulling the immigration card. Fortunately Hispanic voters increasingly (excepting the 2008 aberration) have become more concerned with other issues. > As for me I’m pragmatic on illegal immigration. Those will skilled jobs, who are fairly Americanized, are college-educated, and otherwise useful can stay along with their immediate families. I lack adequate words to respond to the ridiculous assumptions in this post. I’ll try later. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/38 "2011-05-24T03:09:46Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I lack adequate words to respond to the ridiculous assumptions in this post. I’ll try later. It seemed like a reasonable post to me. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/39 "2011-05-24T03:27:16Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Why the snark? Are you disputing Sanandaji’s figures? I can’t confirm or dispute them; they’re completely unsubstantiated. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245/40 "2011-05-24T03:33:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I can’t confirm or dispute them; they’re completely unsubstantiated. So the Pew Hispanic Center isn’t a reliable source? Look at page 74 of their report which is linked in Sanandaji’s post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-immigration-a-plank-of-the-us-democratic-party/580245.md?page=3)