# Why isn't media anti-Semitism ever addressed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 25, 2004, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404 "2004-08-25T04:40:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/41 "2004-08-25T22:49:18Z")
> [@bootyhunter16](#): > > I think what is the most unpleasent thing about modern day antisemitism is that its actually fashionable to be anti-jew. in my sisters class for example there are actually anti-jew gangs that kids her age have formed. there is a whole culture about being antisemetic and they sing songs and stuff and say all sorts of stuff and its like that in a lot of schools. Would you please give some context for this, like where you live, or how old your sister is, or how many people you’ve seen, or some kind of information? I’ve never seen anything like what you’re talking about, so I doubt it’s fair to say it’s “fashionable.” ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/42 "2004-08-26T00:07:49Z")
You kind of answered your first set of questions with your second. There are a lot of Jewish comedians and comic writers, and they write from experience. > [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > Why is the Jewish male so often portrayed as an ineffectual, sometimes neurotic, often pitiful type of guy? I’m not even just talking about Woody Allen. Ross on Friends might be handsome, but why is he such a nerd? The creators of “Friends” were called Bright, Kauffman, and Crane. (I used to know their first names.) I imagine the characters were at least partially drawn from people they know in real life. Ross is a nerd because his character needs to be a nerd. I imagine that the family is Jewish because the writers had a lot of material to write about Jewish families. Is it also an unfair stereotype that Monica was an over-achiever and a control freak who used to be fat? I’ve never heard that as a trite Jewish cliche. > [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > Why did the heroine’s geeky, homely best friend in ‘The Princess Diaries’ have to have a Jewish last name? The movie was directed by Garry Marshall. I don’t know the book, so I don’t know if they made a point of her being Jewish there. They needed _both_ characters to be nerdy, geeky, and homely at the beginning of the story for the thing to work. > [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > Why was it so important that Greg Focker, the hapless loser of Meet the Parents, be Jewish? Wouldn’t the comedy have worked just as well if his religion wasn’t needlessly addressed? A) It’s a Ben Stiller movie. Stiller is Jewish. B) Half the comedy comes from the culture-clash of super-Jewish guy meeting super-WASP family. There were just as many WASP stereotypes made fun of in the movie. > [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > In ‘Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle,’ the two Jewish stoners Rosenberg and Goldstein run into Harold and Kumar, at which point they are asked how Katie Holmes’ tits looked. One of them replies, "You know the Holocaust? They were the exact opposite of that.’ I think you missed the “point” (being charitable there) of that movie. I can’t think of a single religious, ethnic, cultural, or socio-economic group that _wasn’t_ made fun of – the whole idea was that most of the stereotypes were stupid. The point of those characters were that the Jewish guys _weren’t_ a Jewish stereotype; they were not nebbish nerds, but over-sexed, homophobic, low-brow, under-achieving stoners, just like everyone else. The point wasn’t that “The Holocaust was funny,” it was that “we have led a life of such privilege that we have no more frame of reference for how horrible The Holocaust was, just by virtue of being Jewish, than would anyone else who grew up in the United States.” I have to admit that I was a little put off at first by that movie, because I thought the gay male nurse and all his over-the-top sexual references and lisping were gratuitous. Then, I smacked myself on the head for being an over-sensitive dolt and realized that the point was to make fun of _everyone_. > [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > Hollywood is out-and-out crawling with Jews. Actors, directors, producers, agents, screenwriters…the myth of ‘Jewish Hollywood’ is partially true. Unlike anti-Semites, I don’t believe all the rich Jews are unified together in a sinister Hollywood plot. However as a reasonable person I understand that there are just lots and lots of Jews in Hollywood. Why don’t any of them say anything about this? Do they like being depicted in a negative fashion? Or are they too obsessed with money to take a stand for their pride? Wait a second. Did you just say that the Jews in Hollywood are all obsessed with money, because they’re not speaking out against anti-Semitism? I think my irony meter just exploded. The Jews in Hollywood _are_ speaking out. They’re saying, “This is what my life is like, exaggerated for comedic effect. We’re all in this together, and it’s funny.” I like Jerry Seinfeld’s line in “Seinfeld,” when the Chinese postal worker gets all offended when Jerry assumes that he knows how to get to Chinatown (from delivering the mail, not by virtue of being Chinese). “What was that all about? I don’t get offended when people ask me where Israel is!” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/43 "2004-08-26T00:14:55Z")
**Bootyhunter** , I find some of what you say confusing on a second glance. If you say the kids will “get bored,” I’d say they’re not really anti-Semites. The kids who use the word ‘gay’ like that aren’t homophobes, they’re just jerks. The insult doesn’t have anything to do with homosexuals, I don’t think… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/44 "2004-08-26T00:16:52Z")
No ass-kicking Jews in movies? Have we forgotten [Cleopatra Schwartz](http://www.worldwatchonline.com/schwartz.jpg) so soon? ---
**Author:** ![bootyhunter16](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@bootyhunter16](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bootyhunter16)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/45 "2004-08-26T00:40:53Z")
I live in the south east of england. My sister turned 13 a couple months ago. Ive seen a lot of people do it - its half of the school. She says she hears somethin about it at least every two days. It shocks me because although I have heard some antisemeticism all the time I’ve been at school it was never a thing that people did, to be cool, there was no huge big deal about making an anti jewish gang, they just did it on a small scale. She says that the kids at school sing songs about Jews and that it is a huge big fashionable thing to talk about killin jews and gettin them out or whatever. To be honest i found it hard to believe just like u did, when she told me, becoz it was never like that all the time i’ve been at school. Maybe it aint fashionable in America but it is here, I’ve spoken to lots of people who’ve been through the same thing. Jewish kids take a lot of flak for bieng Jewish, I dont know what its like in the rest of the world but it is pretty bad here. look man i find it pretty hard to believe it myself, but i’ve actually seen the way these pple act, and when my sister’s friends are here, they say the same thing. they’re not Jews, btw. I know the word gay as it is used has nothin to do with homosexuals, but it is still very hurtfull, I found that when i was at school they always used to use that word deliberately to bully gay people or people they thought were gay. it wasnt a fashion though, it was just something that people did. I know that a couple of years ago it was a fashion to be homophobic, thats how the whole use of the word gay, came about. I think they’ll just get bored of it eventually but in the meantime it is very upsetting and it hurts people becos although they are just usin it as a general insult it does mean that actual jews are getting bullied, because of this, and that a lot of the time these kids know that it will hurt people but they don’t really realise wot they are saying so they just carry on. ---
**Author:** ![bootyhunter16](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@bootyhunter16](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bootyhunter16)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/46 "2004-08-26T00:42:46Z")
> [@bootyhunter16](#): > > and when my sister’s friends are here, they say the same thing. Meaning that they say the same sort of thing about the kind of stuff that goes on in her school not that they actually take part in it! lol ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/47 "2004-08-26T00:56:28Z")
> [@bootyhunter16](#): > > I know that a couple of years ago it was a fashion to be homophobic, thats how the whole use of the word gay, came about. I was unaware homophobia had either come into or gone out of style recently. For whatever it’s worth, a lot of people that age are just morons. Not that the number sharply declines later in life, but it does go down a bit. 😉 I’m not sure high school jeers are the best criteria for judging that. I can’t believe I didn’t think of this before, but… > [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > it was about sexism and racism in the media. It was interesting, so I read it for a little bit. I wondered if it had anything in it about anti-Semitism, so I looked in the index. > > No entry for ‘Anti-Semitism.’ None for ‘Jews’ or ‘Jewish.’ I looked for ‘Italian-American.’ No dice. > > Clearly, this book was only addressing stereotypes about women, blacks, Hispanics and Asians. You said it’s about racism and sexism. Jews and Italians are neither. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/48 "2004-08-26T02:10:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Unless they’re _Cary Grant_, right, **roger**? 😉 Ah, **Marley** , they don’t make 'em like Cary Grant any more. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/49 "2004-08-26T02:40:43Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I was unaware homophobia had either come into or gone out of style recently. For whatever it’s worth, a lot of people that age are just morons. Not that the number sharply declines later in life, but it does go down a bit. 😉 I’m not sure high school jeers are the best criteria for judging that. > > I can’t believe I didn’t think of this before, but… > > You said it’s about racism and sexism. Jews and Italians are neither. “Hispanic” isn’t a race as well…but many people think of Hispanics as a race, and likewise, in history Jews have for centuries been viewed as a race apart from “Aryan” or “Gentile” Europeans. Why does every white supremacist/separatist group spend as much time threatening or bashing Jews as they do any other “minorities”? I am not saying Jews are not white (though some are actually black or Asian as well), but that ‘race’ is tied more closely to perceived characteristics than well defined traits. Jews have long been seen as a “race” by others. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/50 "2004-08-26T03:32:14Z")
> [@syncrolecyne](#): > > “Hispanic” isn’t a race as well…but many people think of Hispanics as a race It’s listed on the census (either as Hispanic or Hispanic/Latino) as a race. Not saying that’s an official guide, but I can see why the book might count it. > [@](#): > > in history Jews have for centuries been viewed as a race apart from “Aryan” or “Gentile” Europeans. I’m aware, but as far as a textbook might be concerned, I wouldn’t be surprised by not counting. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/51 "2004-08-26T03:44:18Z")
There is, of course, also the fact that a writer makes a conscious choice to potray a character as Jewish (otherwise the character would be presumed to be of the majority), and therefore does so for a particular reason. Often that reason is the ability to exploit the stereotype to some end - either to broadly brushstroke the stereotype as a way to avoid the harder work of real character development, or to play against it for effect. Why else mention it? Now the origins of the stereotypes in media are another matter, and of course have a lot to do with a generation past or so of Jewish comics mining their own, often immigrant family, experiences. Hence the overbearing mother, common in many immigrant family cultures, became a Jewish comedic format. Woody Allem didn’t exploit the stereotype of the nebbish neurotic paranoid New York Jew - he created and popularized it. Self-deprecating humor is a long Jewish cultural tradition, and it sold well. Other traditional Jewish jokes, say making fun of oppressors, don’t translate to popular culture as well. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/52 "2004-08-26T15:14:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Unless they’re _Cary Grant_ Whom, [according to some theories,](http://www.jews.net/jewishactors.htm) was Jewish. (Not a lot was known of his early years and he wasn’t real helpful.) Hmmm, looking at that link I see that Jane Seymour, Lisa Bonet, and Mel Brooks are listed, too. Mel Brooks is Jewish? Who knew? 😉 > [@](#): > > And she (Marley’s Jewish Mother) never cleaned my face by licking a handkerchief and rubbing it on the dirt. I see that in movies from time to time and wonder where the hell it came from. My mom, the JAP who didn’t know it (long, stupid story) does, but so does my wife, the One-D-Adams. It’s a not-quite-universal thing, I guess, but Mommy Spit will dissolve most anything. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/53 "2004-08-26T15:26:35Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Whom, [according to some theories,](http://www.jews.net/jewishactors.htm) was Jewish. (Not a lot was known of his early years and he wasn’t real helpful.) Hmmm, looking at that link I see that Jane Seymour, Lisa Bonet, and Mel Brooks are listed, too. Mel Brooks is Jewish? Who knew? ;)My mom, the JAP who didn’t know it (long, stupid story) does, but so does my wife, the One-D-Adams. It’s a not-quite-universal thing, I guess, but Mommy Spit will dissolve most anything. Including dignity. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/54 "2004-08-26T16:39:34Z")
Depending on your age, that can be _especially_ dignity! “Mom, please don’t do that. I’m fifty and am not yet at the point of gibbering senility. Just tell me what’s wrong and I’ll fix it myself.” “This will just take a moment.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/55 "2004-08-26T17:49:25Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > It’s a not-quite-universal thing, I guess, but Mommy Spit will dissolve most anything. That’s not really surprising. But I do wonder how the hell it got to be a characteristic of the Hollywood Jewish mother (or the overbearing mother who once in a great while isn’t Jewish). ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/56 "2004-08-26T19:53:20Z")
For the record, Canadians are obsessed with beer and hockey. All day long, it’s “beer and hockey” this, and " beer and hockey" that, and “I can’t live without my beer and hockey.” It’s enough to make you crazy. They even have special stores for the stuff. You go to “The Beer Store”, where all you can buy is beer, cases and cases of it, they roll it out to you on conveyor belts. And then right next door, they usually put “The Hockey Store,” shelves and shelves just piled high with the stuff, Canadians wandering around lugging their beer, stuffing hockey in their pockets like they’ll never make any more, until they can hardly move they’re so loaded down with beer and hockey . . . . . . what? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/57 "2004-08-26T21:47:07Z")
It seems that most of the “nerdy-geeky” “jewish stereotypes” were perpetuated by… the Jewish People themselves- Jewish actors, producers, directors. The ultimate " the Jewish male so often portrayed as an ineffectual, sometimes neurotic, often pitiful type of guy"- was indeed- Woody Allen, who I am pretty darn sure is Jewish. ;j Personally, this thread got me to thinking- what is the OLD (pre-Hollywood" Jewish Stereotype? Shylock, greedy, miserly, evil, conniving, and THREATENING. The new Stereotype “nerdy, neurotic, funny, brainy, geeky and pitiful”- in other words- completely NON-threatening. I think this ws a brilliant propaganda move, if so. You hate those you are afraid of- you don’t hate those who you think are “pitiful”. Sure, dudes make Jewish jokes- but a lot of them are Jewish. ;j Note that Anti-Semitism (although still around) is hardly the major force of HATE it used to be in the Western World. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/58 "2004-08-27T22:57:38Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > The movie was directed by Garry Marshall. Garry Marshall is Italian. To the OP – As a Jewish woman who watches a lot of movies, I’ve never been upset by the way Jews are portrayed, except if, as **DrDeth** suggests, the old dirty, greasy Shylock image is used. This is an older image, most evident in 19th century and earlier literature (I find Oliver Twist almost unbearably painful to read). But modern Jewish characters tend to be extremely likeable, and remniscent of people I know, so I have no problem with them. My favorite current Jewish character (sadly now retired) is Detective Lennie Briscoe of Law & Order. Although clearly a New York Jew, he is an admirable man, and I’m proud to have even a tenuous identification with him. What about the beautiful, successful, if sexually confused Jessica Stein, from the movie Kissing Jessica Stein? The brilliant, funny, and in Josh’s case extremely attractive Jews of the West Wing, Toby Ziegler and Josh Lyman? In my experience, Jewish characters tend to be very richly written (often by Jewish writers), and while they may superficially have stereotypical characteristics, they have enough depth that those characteristics don’t define them. I am very concerned about the potential increase of anti-Semitism in the world, and stories like **bootyhunter16’s** really scare me. But I am not scared by the image of Jews that the many Jewish producers, directors, writers and actors portray in films and on television. To me, that’s just a depiction of our particular subculture, with all its unique and endearing qualities. ---
**Author:** ![Alias](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@Alias](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alias)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/59 "2004-08-28T00:12:53Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Canadians are obsessed with hockey and beer. But. . . but. . . that’s TRUE!!! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404/60 "2004-08-28T00:40:40Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Garry Marshall is Italian. _ **No way!** _ You’re kidding me! [Holy cow, apparently you’re not.](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005190/bio) I always pictured him as the prototypical “Old Jewish TV/Movie Mogul,” pretty much a stereotype come to life. (I’ve always thought he was cool as hell, btw – I don’t like his movies, but I love his commentary.) I’m not sure whether I should be really embarrassed at that for talking out of my ass, or whether I should be proud that I’m completely inept at playing “Spot the Jew.” Okay, yeah, I’m pretty sure I should be really embarrassed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-media-anti-semitism-ever-addressed/261404.md?page=4)