One more for the list:
The English are villainous. Any HBO-type film: the bloke with the English accent did it. The black guy who seemed to do it never did it.
The black guys are the first to die in most horror movies, when it really should be the annoying teenager, or Sofia Coppla.
Feels that horror movie monsters should be given an award for getting rid of excess annoying teenagers
Cantonese films employ Caucasian actors specifically to be taken out in the first 20 minutes of the movie. They are invariably drug traffickers, and - and this is where the variation comes in - they are either done in by triads or taken out by cops. Most have a ponytail.
That’s one movie, from the 1970s.
And I’ve seen it already.
First of all I love comic relief. Nothing wrong with comic relief in my book, unless it is a cheap distortion of original material such as Gimli in the LOTR movies.
Secondly, you seem too sensitive and attuned to material that could be interpreted as anti-jewish. The examples you cite from Friends are a bit desperate, and I’d prefer it if you found other material. I submit the problem is your perception and sensitivity, rather than anti-jewish sentiment.
On Friends, you complain that Ross Geller is a nerd, but who on that show is not a nerd of some kind, or a dork, an idiot, etc.? That is the whole gimmick of the show, each character has certain maladaptive traits not shared by the other characters; this allows the writers to interleave their stories around the entire cast (Joey is dumb, Phibi is crazy, Monica is stupid and shallow, Rachel is obsessive-compulsive, Chandler is insecure and overcompensating, Ross is an academic dork). And Ross’s sister, Monica, as far as I know she is considered a babe. As is Rachel, who I think also has a Jewish connection – I’ll have to leave it to the show experts, however I will just mention that the first time I was introduced to this TV show I was asked if I wanted to see “the hottest chicks on TV”.
Do you think Fox Mulder is a negative Jewish stereotype? Although he seems to have fizzled out now, David Duchovny enjoyed a number of years as a premiere sex/cool symbol on one of TV’s most successful shows plus two movies. Do you think Ben Stiller is pandering to negative Jewish stereotypes, or do you think he is just a very talented comic actor who gets to play in several movies and who happens to be Jewish? Was that Seinfeld’s problem too, is he too funny and therefore an unwilling exponent of anti-semitism?
But there is no obligation to make films about Hebrew hardasses or any other particular topic, this is a matter of studio choice and economics. Subjects for film and TV materials are picked according to their marketability; with 2% of US population being Jewish, and with problems such as anti-jewish trends (which are milder than you probably think) and the persistently problematic behaviour of Israel, you can see why little drive exists to produce such material, even given the somewhat disproportionate representation of Jews in US film and TV companies.
I’m not sure where you’re going with the OP since it seems to answer its own question:
Jews are not out protesting because they are the ones writing, directing, acting, and producing the stuff that bothers you. Why should they kick their own product? You see the same sort of thing in novels, particularly novels written by Catholics or Southerners, in addition to Jews: the best people at sending up (and knocking down) the stereotypes are the people from within a group. Listen to Prairie Home Companion when Garrison Keillor takes on Minnesotans. No one does Irish drunks like an Irish author and no one can do a stuffy upper-crust Brit like a Brit.
(You want to see the ADL come out in force? Let some poor schlob produce a movie in which a truly brutal character was explicitly Jewish.)
Bit of a nitpick, but I’m not sure that a movie about Ted Lewis, if accurate, would be “a decent representation of Jews”.
Lewis was employed by Mosley as a Youth Fitness Instructor (or something) for the New Party. Basically, his job was to recruit, train and lead a gang who became knows as the “Biff Boys”, and who provided “security” at Mosley’s meetings. Lewis himself stood as a candidate for the New Party.
He was perhaps the last person to notice that Mosley was espousing anti-Semitic views but, when it did dawn on him, in 1932, he had a confrontation with Mosley during which he knocked him down.
We may infer from all this that, while Turner was strongly opposed to anti-Semitism, (a) he doesn’t appear to have had any objection to other aspects of fascisct ideology or policy, and (b) he wasn’t very bright. All-in-all, then, not the most aspirational figure.
Goldfinger?*
I do, sort of, agree with the OP. We’re not talking about whether characters are good or evil, smart or stupid, or whether they’re stereotypes; we’re talking about hotness and toughness. And from watching a great deal of American films and movies, I’ve seen very few Jewish characters who were either tough or hot. In fact, I can’t really think of any specifically Jewish action hero in a Hollywood film since, well, Exodus.
Still, in modern U.S. it’s often hard to know if a person is Jewish or not just by their name. Is, say, Danny Ocean as played by George Clooney in the remake of Ocean’s 11 Jewish? There’s no reason why he couldn’t be. The surname is obviously made up (common for Jews of previous generations), and Daniel is a Jewish name. I also like the theories some people have about ShanePerhaps Hollywood movies are full of tough, hot Jews, and we just don’t know it. The only time we *are * aware of it is when they display an obvious Jewish trait.
I think the problem here is not with Jewish characters per se, but with overt Jewishness, which is usually Hollywwod shorthand for nerdiness. And frankly, it’s not that far-fetched - compared to other Jewish communities, at least, American Jews do tend to come off a bit nebbichy (although I shouldn’t be one to talk). I’d still like to see a good biopic about tough, impressive Jews of the past, though. Ted Lewis, Hank Greenberg, Johnny Weissmuller, Samuel Gompers, Josef Trumpledor, Abba Kovner, Moshe Dayan, take your pick. I promise I’ll go see it.
- Wa wa wa wa waaaaaaaaa.
It would seem that any culture, at some level, develops the ability to laugh at themselves (hopefully). The Jewish culture appears to the outsider to possess this trait as a dominant feature (although some individuals may not share this trait as a dominant feature).
As you point out:
That being the case, combined with what I stated above, and the result would be…?
If Garrison Kiellor’s ancestors had founded Hollywood, perhaps we would have lot’s of movies with wry Norwiegans?
PaulFitzroy, I think you are a little paranoid about anti-semitism :rolleyes:
What is this obsession with Spielberg? Was Schindler’s List too full of geeky Jewish stereotypes for you, and you feel he ought to make a better movie?
As pretty much everyone else has said, Hollywood runs on stereotypes. Yes, the “typical” Jewish characters don’t have much of a range, but for crying out loud, how many good female roles does Hollywood produce each year? Certainly less than ten – and the rest is pretty much made up by characters that are the damsel in distress, the woman pining away for a big manly-man hero, that Princess Diaries type crap, or some weepy, whiny story that should be on Oprah, not the silver screen.
If Hollywood can’t write well for women, and that’s 50 percent of the freakin’ human race, why should there be some kind of uprising over the treatment of Jewish characters, who, you must admit, are not being portrayed as evil, just as people with the same old list of tired quirks?
We’ve been laughing at ourselves for a few millenia now. It’s one of the things that helped us survive.
One of my favorite jokes comes from the Jewish comedians of the Borscht Belt. “Why do Jewish men die before their wives? They want to.”
In The 2000 Year Old Man, by the Jews Carl Reiner and Mel Brooks, the 2k man answers one question with “Who knows? Jews are nuts.”
The sitcom The Nanny was filled with Jewish stereotypes. I never heard anybody object, because the stereotypes were so accurate. “Mrs Fine, that’s pork. I thought Jews couldn’t eat pork.” “It’s okay. It’s got mushu sauce on it. Cancels it out.”
The stereotype of Jewish men as nerdy and unathletic is based in fact. Judaism places a great value on learning. Jewish tradition also discourages athletic pursuits. This goes back to Hellenic times. While this is changing, note the Macabee games, it’s been around for a long time.
You want a powerful Jewish character in a film? Watch X Men again. Magneto isn’t just in a concentration camp. He’s wearing a yellow star.
Or go rent The Hebrew Hammer. He’s Shaft, but with the tip trimmed off.
A better subject, if you want Ass-kicking Jews Vs Mosley, is
The Battle of Cable Street (Though many were Commie Ass-kicking Jews, so it might be hard to sell in the US. A great moment though)
Okay, to start off before anyone calls me anti-semetic, I’m partially of Jewish roots and am becoming more Jewish as time goes on.
Most Jewish guys I know are geeky, socially incapable at times and have somewhat overbearing mothers. Granted this discribes most of the people that I know, as well, I’m a geek. But they don’t mind the sterotypes they see on the screen, because they are seeing themselves and people like to see people like themselves on the screen.
One thing I really can’t stand are Jews that call anti-semetism at everything. My ex-roommate (a nutcase reguardless of religion) loved to say, oh, they treated me badly because I was a Jew, or that’s because they are antisemetic or whatever. I got real tired of it, especially since I look as much or more Jewish than she does and while she went to a liberal public school in a mostly Jewish town, I went to Catholic school with three or four other Jewish kids out of 700, but I digress, as this is utterly off topic.
Oh, and in terms of said male Jewish characters being an unpleasant sterotype, my best friend (also Jewish) and I talk about how we want to meet Nice Jewish Boys (NJB) to date or marry. For us, an NJB is a dark, curly haired boy that excells in school and won’t mind the fact we’re bosy as hell. So, the reason that I don’t stand up and rail against this stereotypes, as I have done over other things in the past, is that I get to see guys like the ones I’d like to date on the screen, so complaining isn’t really an issue.
Especially because we’re behind the counter.
In the '30s and '40s characters weren’t allowed to be Jewish, unless they were rabbi’s sons like in The Jazz Singer or real stereotypes. Did Groucho play Jewish? Chico? Jack Benny?
Second, when you write comedy, self-denigration comedy is easier, and usually works better, than insulting others. Yeah, Don Rickles is an exception. So since Jews were writing comedy, you got Jewish self-denigration. if the real anti-Semites say we own and control everything, it probably made sense not to have characters that do own and control everything. (And if we do own everything, the check for my share is damn late.)
To OP:
Maybe in Indiana you people have assimilated, but being from New York, where gentiles in my classes were a small minority, Ross is not too far from my friends and I, correcting for comic excess, of course. Show business works on easily recognized types. Child actresses are split into beautiful children and character types, for instance. When my daughter, who looks very New York (i.e. Jewish) was acting, she got slated into the smart kid roles. I don’t know if you want to consider being smart an instance of anti-Semitism (sometimes Asians in California are fed up with being stereotyped as being smart) but her manager and over half the casting directors were Jewish, and moving in that world was very comfortable.
My great Aunt, and those of her generation, knew real anti-Semitism. Not to say it is expunged, but show business is not my biggest worry.
PS - the main character in my novel, a spy and starship Captain from the present day, is Jewish. If I ever sell it I’ll be doing my bit. 
Unless they’re starship captains or super-spies. 
In romantic comedies, when they aren’t the snotty villains, British guys are charming, bumbling gents who never know what to say. Or maybe that’s just Hugh Grant. He’s made so many of those fucking movies I can’t tell if it’s an archetype, a stereotype, or just HIM. And Italians aren’t always cool, most of the time they’re mobsters with super-hot tempers and inferiority complexes that make them try to use large words (which they do not understand and mispronounce) in an effort to sound smart.
Unless they’re Cary Grant, right, roger?
Ben Stiller is Jewish. For all you know it was his idea.
Same question regarding Jon Lovitz, who I like to think of as the prototypical Jew of Eastern European descent.
Ignoring the Jewish comedy writers who wrote it (now THAT’s a real-life stereotype)… mind if I ask where you live? Most of my family is Jewish and I grew up in the most Jewish part of this country. You wouldn’t BELIEVE how many Holocaust jokes I’ve heard, the vast majority of them from (young) Jewish people. Actually I’ve become quite adept at them myself. (Most of them are funnier than that particular joke.) When it’s clear someone is joking by being over-the-top offensive, only oversensitive people miss the joke. For younger people, or at least some of them, the Holocaust is in bounds as a humor topic. It’s not anti-Semites who are to blame, it’s Mel Brooks. ;j I refer you to The Producers, one of the funniest movies ever made. And more recently one of the most successful Broadway musicals ever.
I suspect because it’s not worth it when there’s REAL anti-Semitism out there. And perhaps they have a better sense of movie history than you. The nerdy-nebbishy Jewish character comes from Woody Allen, who is Jewish. There have been tons of major Jewish comedians, and if anything has perpetuated these stereotypes, it’s their success.
Tough. I’d hand you a tissue if I had one.
You don’t have to be Jewish to know that. The ADL is one of the most active and oversensitive (should I say kvetchy?) lobbies in the country. They never seem to hesitate if they think something untoward is going on. A year or two ago they protested and help muck up a miniseries about Hitler on ABC. If this movie was a problem to them, we’d know.
As noted, it’s probably Jewish humor that’s responsible for these depictions. And of course, you didn’t note that Jews are often depicted as funny and smart, which I would say are positive traits. And you missed Ben Stiller’s movie Keeping the Faith from a few years ago. It’s a nice romatic comedy, and he plays a rabbi who seems at least reasonably hip. Not totally un-dorky, but not the character you’re talking about either. The depiction of Judaism is certainly not mean-spirited Rent the movie, have a nosh, you’ll laugh maybe?
Well, they ARE Jews, after all.*
My grandfather isn’t particularly fat and doesn’t smoke, but I won’t say anything about his nose.
Mine is. The stereotypes did come from somewhere, you know. She doesn’t speak Yiddish and she doesn’t have big hair, but I think she meets most of the other criteria. And she never cleaned my face by licking a handkerchief and rubbing it on the dirt. I see that in movies from time to time and wonder where the hell it came from.
I’m not sure why these would be contradictory. I know some very nice people who also happen to be kind of stereotypical. So what?
Why is Spielberg obligated to depict Jews a certain way just because he’s Jewish?
Oh, and as far as so-called “positive stereotypes,” Paul, you didn’t mention the abundance of Jewish doctors in film, both physicians and psychiatrists. Perhaps some of the ‘smart’ traits of Jews have been co-opted by Asians in recent years. Oh well. Immigrants or minorities tend to get reduced to a couple of recognizable traits (smart, or drinks a lot, or has a temper, or plays basketball, or is a violinist, or whatever), and there are only so many of them to go around.
There were WTC jokes within hours of the attacks. They were whispered between friends or sent on the internet but they were there. You are talking about something that happened over 50 years ago. That doesn’t make it any less horrific but don’t tell me it surprises you that every now and then a joke will be made. Black humor and Shock humor have been around forever. Probably the second joke ever made was a sick joke. Are you trying to say just one event is exempt out of all of history? It might not be funny to you (or me) but don’t pretend to be shocked by it. I heard a comedian once say that comedy=tragedy + time.
there is alot of antisemiticism in the modern day society especially among younger kids but I dont think that’s anything to do with hollywood films. Ive seen some disturbing representions of Jews in movies but i dont think that’s the only thing responsible.
I think what is the most unpleasent thing about modern day antisemitism is that its actually fashionable to be anti-jew. in my sisters class for example there are actually anti-jew gangs that kids her age have formed. there is a whole culture about being antisemetic and they sing songs and stuff and say all sorts of stuff and its like that in a lot of schools.
but like all fashions this one will die out, it is very unpleasent, but it will go. The word jew is being used as a insult like the word gay. Most of these kids do not have the faintest idea what they are saying, they just think it is funny. Eventually they will get bored.