# Why isn't racism "being a jerk"? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [June 20, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883 "2010-06-20T17:37:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/21 "2010-06-20T19:39:59Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Posting to insult a specific poster or posting in ways in which one’s language is intended to provoke other posters to break the rules is being a jerk. Huh. Well, I’ll confess that strikes me as a rather odd definition of being a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/22 "2010-06-20T19:40:00Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Free speech doesn’t apply to a private message board. If you don’t like the opinions you are reading on a given private message board you are certainly welcome to stop reading them, correct? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/23 "2010-06-20T19:41:16Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The problem is separating fact from racist propaganda. Okay, so let’s posit a scenario in which we can separate them. Would “racist propaganda” be jerkish? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/24 "2010-06-20T19:41:45Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’m replying to your explicit statement that it’s about posts that are “things that tend to derail discussion.” How does racism not qualify? I mentioned several specific behaviors that derail discussions into personal fights, which is what I was talking about. I am not talking about heated arguments on which the subject of a thread remains the topic of discussion. As I have already said, there are any number of topics in GD that tend to become heated. This does not qualify as “derailed.” If we banned every controversial subject, GD would soon be pretty empty. (Some no doubt would consider this a good thing. ;)) [QUOTE=jsgoddess] I haven’t offered a proposed cure. [/QUOTE] Then please propose one. Or at least explain what exactly you wish to achieve with this thread. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/25 "2010-06-20T19:42:29Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > If you don’t like the opinions you are reading on a given private message board you are certainly welcome to stop reading them, correct? No. I’m actually required by the US Constitution to read all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/26 "2010-06-20T19:43:21Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Okay, so let’s posit a scenario in which we can separate them. Would “racist propaganda” be jerkish? Can you link to an example of what you are talking about on this board? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/27 "2010-06-20T19:43:36Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Then please propose one. Or at least explain what exactly you wish to achieve with this thread. I wanted to get an answer to my question about whether espousing racism is being a jerk. The definition of “being a jerk” is pretty non-intuitive. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/28 "2010-06-20T19:45:08Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Can you link to an example of what you are talking about on this board? I would sincerely prefer to stick with a general theoretical discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/29 "2010-06-20T19:48:28Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Free speech doesn’t apply to a private message board. The First Amendment of the Constitution does not apply private to message boards, but the intellectual concept of free speech certainly _has_ been applied to _this_ message board for over ten years. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/30 "2010-06-20T19:49:34Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I wanted to get an answer to my question about whether espousing racism is being a jerk. With regard to the “Don’t be a jerk rule,” the answer is no, in terms of stating opinions that may be construed as racist, or making arguments in favor of racist viewpoints. > [@](#): > > The definition of “being a jerk” is pretty non-intuitive. On this board, the definition is a bit more restricted than the way you wish to use it. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/31 "2010-06-20T19:50:16Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I would sincerely prefer to stick with a general theoretical discussion. Then we may not be able to answer your questions, since context can be important. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/32 "2010-06-20T19:53:25Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > With regard to the “Don’t be a jerk rule,” the answer is no, in terms of stating opinions that may be construed as racist, or making arguments in favor of racist viewpoints. > > On this board, the definition is a bit more restricted than the way you wish to use it. Yeah, that becomes clear. And no, I don’t think context is relevant, since you’re clearly making statements about the theoretical application of the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/33 "2010-06-20T21:01:58Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > What can someone do to be a jerk if declaring entire segments of the population genetically inferior doesn’t count? I’m saying that there are lots of things a person can do that others would consider jerkish that one shouldn’t try to prohibit from a message board, unless you want that message board to suck. The fact that there is a rule stating “don’t be a jerk” here doesn’t bind the mods to banish every act someone might interpret as jerkish – if it did, most every post in the Pit would be against the rules. Instead, it’s always been treated as a common sense rule mostly focused on posting behavior, not posting content (with exceptions clearly stated in cases like hate speech and personal insults), which I think is the most sensible way to handle it. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/34 "2010-06-20T21:07:45Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > And no, I don’t think context is relevant, since you’re clearly making statements about the theoretical application of the rules. Context is critical in some cases; for example, I have no idea what you are specifically referring to when you say “racist propaganda.” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/35 "2010-06-20T21:21:06Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Context is critical in some cases; for example, I have no idea what you are specifically referring to when you say “racist propaganda.” I was asking a question of someone who was stating there was such a thing and it was hard to distinguish from fact. **If** it were distinguishable from fact, **then** would it be jerkish. I’m not defining the term. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/36 "2010-06-20T21:51:51Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Context is critical in some cases; for example, I have no idea what you are specifically referring to when you say “racist propaganda.” Context is usually key. Let’s pretend that there really are just three or four races. Let’s further pretend that I’m a genetic researcher. One morning, I check my bubbling beakers and reams of data, then I announce that people of the black race are genetically predisposed to chucking spears and eating watermelon. Racist? If I backed the announcement with a breakdown of the spear-throwing muscles in humans, which shows that in 97.6% of blacks, these muscles are one-third more fully developed than in infants from other races, would it still be racist? What if it was found that most acidic fruits and vegetables in Africa are poisonous, showing that a preference for watermelon and similar non-acidic foods conveys a distinct survival advantage for those who spent thousands of years in that part of the world? Assuming that my data wasn’t falsified and my methods were acceptable, would my conclusions be racist? Taking that further, suppose that a year later I found a codon exclusive to the black race. This codon produces a protein that interferes with the higher cognitive functions, causing a 5 to 10 point drop in measurable intelligence. Would you, **jsgoddess** , accept such a finding or would it be too racist? ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/37 "2010-06-20T23:16:46Z")
A discussion about what is or is not racist belongs in Great Debates forum. This discussion is confined (I believe) to the question of whether espousing racist sentiments is being a “jerk” and hence not allowed on these boards. Please stick to topic. The answer, already given, is that being a jerk (on these message boards) is behavior toward (individual) posters. Racist comments are directed at a large group, whose members include persons not posters on these boards. We do NOT allow nasty comments to be made to other posters (outside the Pit.) We _do_ allow nasty comments to made about non-posters. If those posts are racist in nature, we still allow it. We draw the line at “hate speech,” and that raises a separate set of questions. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/38 "2010-06-21T00:30:29Z")
**jsgoddess** I think you missed the days when several racist posters joined this board, coming here from a well-known site dedicated to such views among other things. [JanL](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=109946) was somewhat representative of the type. Most of them didn’t last very long, but they weren’t banned for espousing their racist views, but because eventually all but maybe one or two violated other board rules in some fashion or another. The above-mentioned poster fell afoul of his habit of [spamming](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=111339) [GD](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=111431). So the SDMB as a private entity doesn’t _have_ to tolerate racist opinions, but it is somewhat of an established precedent that it does and I happen to agree with that stance, for some of the reasons already stated. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/39 "2010-06-21T00:59:12Z")
Hmmm…I went wandering through those old White Nationalist invasion threads again. What an ugly mess. But here’s an old debate ( there was more than one ) about auto-banning them, see in particular post #72: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=139768](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=139768) Incidentally that Pit thread spawned two long-ass white nationalism debate threads in GD. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/40 "2010-06-21T01:18:40Z")
I think–although I don’t mean to speak for **jsgoddess** –the genesis of this thread is a handful of posters who use race-baiting as a particularly ugly method of trolling. I’m not going to name names, but I’ve been seeing it a lot more often in the Pit. Of course, I’m not sure what constitutes bannable offenses any more, since apparently openly bragging about trolling won’t get you kicked from this place, so maybe I’m just behind the times or something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883.md?page=3)