# Why isn't racism "being a jerk"? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [June 20, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883 "2010-06-20T17:37:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/41 "2010-06-21T01:24:12Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > A discussion about what is or is not racist belongs in Great Debates forum. This discussion is confined (I believe) to the question of whether espousing racist sentiments is being a “jerk” and hence not allowed on these boards. Please stick to topic. > > The answer, already given, is that being a jerk (on these message boards) is behavior toward (individual) posters. Racist comments are directed at a large group, whose members include persons not posters on these boards. We do NOT allow nasty comments to be made to other posters (outside the Pit.) We _do_ allow nasty comments to made about non-posters. If those posts are racist in nature, we still allow it. We draw the line at “hate speech,” and that raises a separate set of questions. Ooops, sorry. Forget which forum I was in. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/42 "2010-06-21T01:43:22Z")
> [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](#): > > The First Amendment of the Constitution does not apply private to message boards, but the intellectual concept of free speech certainly _has_ been applied to _this_ message board for over ten years. Ahahahahahaha ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/43 "2010-06-21T02:07:50Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > since apparently openly bragging about trolling won’t get you kicked from this place, Link please. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/44 "2010-06-21T02:15:35Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Link please. A certain person is going to be all over this, claiming that I’m some kind of obsessive, but I posted [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11386445&highlight=troll#post11386445) just recently as an example of **Rand Rover** trolling and admitting to it. I reported him and he wasn’t even warned. Then he started bragging all over [this thread this week](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=567170&page=10) about his trolling ways, eventually getting warned for it. But the guy should have been on his second yellow card a long time ago, and IMHO in the old days this week’s thread would have been a straight red. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/45 "2010-06-21T02:24:09Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > A certain person is going to be all over this, claiming that I’m some kind of obsessive, but I posted [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11386445&highlight=troll#post11386445) just recently as an example of **Rand Rover** trolling and admitting to it. I reported him and he wasn’t even warned. Then he started bragging all over [this thread this week](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=567170&page=10) about his trolling ways, eventually getting warned for it. But the guy should have been on his second yellow card a long time ago, and IMHO in the old days this week’s thread would have been a straight red. Oooh can I join? **Rand Rover** was [trolling me hard in this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=567774) yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/46 "2010-06-21T02:25:13Z")
Then there was [this thread calling for wagers on Bush’s re-election](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=561707)–wagers which he admittedly never intended to take–the “I need hugz” [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=551672) which he posted after mocking people who “needed affection” in the Pit, constant use of insults out of the Pit despite repeated warnings…the guy is having us on, and laughing at us behind our backs. Listen, everyone know I don’t like **RR** , but what do we have anti-trolling rules for if they’re not going to be used for someone who trolls as blatantly as he does? I’ve been here ten years, and AFAIK he’s the only person I’ve reported more than once. And I mentioned people using racism and related stuff as “race-baiting” trolling. I don’t need to tell you, of course, that **RR** loves to engage in that too. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/47 "2010-06-21T02:28:52Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > But the guy should have been on his second yellow card a long time ago, and IMHO in the old days this week’s thread would have been a straight red. He’s on his third yellow card (two for trolling, one for insults), actually. If he continues to troll, he will find himself kicked out. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/48 "2010-06-21T02:31:03Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Oooh can I join? **Rand Rover** was [trolling me hard in this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=567774) yesterday. Arguing with you and insulting you in the Pit is not the same as trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/49 "2010-06-21T02:33:00Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Then there was [this thread calling for wagers on Bush’s re-election](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=561707)–wagers which he admittedly never intended to take–the “I need hugz” [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=551672) which he posted after mocking people who “needed affection” in the Pit, constant use of insults out of the Pit despite repeated warnings…the guy is having us on, and laughing at us behind our backs. Listen, everyone know I don’t like **RR** , but what do we have anti-trolling rules for if they’re not going to be used for someone who trolls as blatantly as he does? I’ve been here ten years, and AFAIK he’s the only person I’ve reported more than once. In any case, let’s not turn this into a discussion of a particular poster, and instead stick to the discussion of whether racism itself is jerkdom. If you want to complain about the treatment of **Rand Rover** , please take it to a different thread. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/50 "2010-06-21T02:59:37Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Arguing with you and insulting you in the Pit is not the same as trolling. I can handle insults and arguing, but the guy was: First loudly [complaining](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12596349&postcount=11) [that I never](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12596525&postcount=24) give citations. So [when I dug up two posts](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12596539&postcount=25) in the thread where I have gave lengthy citations; he [starts](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12596724&postcount=30) [complaining that](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12596753&postcount=34) [they are useless](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12596780&postcount=36) and I should expound even more on them. Troll ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/51 "2010-06-21T03:02:48Z")
I absolutely can’t see how discussing differences among population clusters (or “races” or “ethnic groups”) is being a jerk. I’m a light-skinned male of western European heritage. I can’t rule out the possibility that the average person of Jewish ancestry has an innately superior talent for taking American IQ tests than the average person of non-Jewish European ancestry. Is there some information that rules out that possibility? Well, since I get most of my new scientific insight from this board, I really hope people aren’t forbidden from discussing the issue here. Snark: Could we make it a rule that anyone who campaigns to preemptively ban honest discussion of certain issues is a jerk? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/52 "2010-06-21T05:12:01Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > I can handle insults and arguing, but the guy was: > > First loudly [complaining](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12596349&postcount=11) [that I never](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12596525&postcount=24) give citations. So [when I dug up two posts](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12596539&postcount=25) in the thread where I have gave lengthy citations; he [starts](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12596724&postcount=30) [complaining that](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12596753&postcount=34) [they are useless](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12596780&postcount=36) and I should expound even more on them. Troll His posts may have been insulting and perhaps inaccurate, but that’s not trolling. Your accusations of trolling in that thread, and here, were not warranted. In any case, as I said, let’s drop discussion of a particular poster and get back to the actual subject of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/53 "2010-06-21T06:52:23Z")
So just to clarify, if I were to say: Western Europeans have historically been the nastiest dumbest fuckers in the world. Fucking morons responded to a rat spread plague by killing most of the rat controlling cats. Then they went almost a thousand years thinking it’s poor hygiene to bathe, while clustered in flea filled cities flowing down the street with their own shit. Brutal too. Those nasty fuckers had a habit of spreading their diseases around. Then forcing their deluded cult on the disease ravaged natives in brutal savage acts of ethnic cleansing and cultural suppression. Further Western Europeans in recent history have shown themselves to continue to be evil pieces of garbage. Most of the genocidal death camps of WWII were ran by Western Europeans. Why are their genes so defective as to produce such historically evil, stupid, and brutal pieces of shit? That wouldn’t be being a jerk? ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/54 "2010-06-21T10:39:45Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > So just to clarify, if I were to say: > > Western Europeans have historically been the nastiest dumbest fuckers in the world. Fucking morons responded to a rat spread plague by killing most of the rat controlling cats. Then they went almost a thousand years thinking it’s poor hygiene to bathe, while clustered in flea filled cities flowing down the street with their own shit. Brutal too. Those nasty fuckers had a habit of spreading their diseases around. Then forcing their deluded cult on the disease ravaged natives in brutal savage acts of ethnic cleansing and cultural suppression. Further Western Europeans in recent history have shown themselves to continue to be evil pieces of garbage. Most of the genocidal death camps of WWII were ran by Western Europeans. Why are their genes so defective as to produce such historically evil, stupid, and brutal pieces of shit? > > That wouldn’t be being a jerk? No - because you’re being factual (pretty much). What \*could \*be seen as pushing it close to jerky territory is the emotive impact: throwing in fucking, fuckers and shit. (And shit.) ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/55 "2010-06-21T10:50:53Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > So just to clarify, if I were to say: > (…) > Further Western Europeans in recent history have shown themselves to continue to be evil pieces of garbage. Most of the genocidal death camps of WWII were ran by Western Europeans. Why are their genes so defective as to produce such historically evil, stupid, and brutal pieces of shit? > > That wouldn’t be being a jerk? As I said upstream, my ancestry is mostly western European; I don’t think I’d be much bothered by comments like the ones in your letter, You make some decent points. That said: –What’s your evidence that it’s genetic? –Haven’t the Chinese, Japanese and Russians got records that are similar? Along with a lot of other populations… –I hope you’ll judge me as an individual rather than as part of a group. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/56 "2010-06-21T10:53:00Z")
If he’d have added “And you have bad dental habits!”, that would have been jerkish, but as you say **N to the S** , the rest is pretty bang on in its assessment. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/57 "2010-06-21T12:17:59Z")
I’m content with seeing frequent pittings, and otherwise generally ignoring the racists. I’ve managed to not respond to them directly in the latest Africa threads, for instance. Even if it’s hard, I think it’s better than plain stamping out their line of inquiry. Not to claim to be special, but if _I_ can stand having them around, anyone should be able to. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/58 "2010-06-21T13:41:17Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > That wouldn’t be being a jerk? I guess it depends on your definition. Most of us would say, in real life, that a racist is a jerk. However, the term “jerk” on the Straight Dope Message Boards has to do with behavior towards others, not with political opinions about non-board members. Since you are being critical about a large group (“Western Europeans”) that is not exclusively members/posters on this board, your comments would be permitted here. Similarly, you could rant about Democrats, Labour, or Norwegians. On the other hand, you could NOT rant (outside the Pit) about “people who answered YES to the poll in this thread” because that would be insulting other posters. There is a question of whether your hypothetical post would be “hate speech,” since it is directed against an ethnic group. However, that’s different from “jerk.” The bottom line: the term “being a jerk” is our catch-all phrase, to avoid trying to write up a six volume set of rules, defining misbehavior on our boards. “Being a jerk” is our euphemism for “misbehaving;” and expressing minority (or weird or just plain wrong) opinions is not misbehaving. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/59 "2010-06-21T13:42:11Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > –I hope you’ll judge me as an individual rather than as part of a group. And rightly so. That is what almost all people want. However if you start a thread called “africans have the dumb”, or “asian can brain good” then you are judging those folks as a group. I remember one jerk in GD who used to write hate filled screeds about how the poor are stupid and worthless and should be made to die in the streets. As someone who grew up poor I found those threads very offensive, and felt like they were full of vicious personal attacks, even though it was directed at group I was from, not me personally. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883/60 "2010-06-21T14:03:24Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > The bottom line: the term “being a jerk” is our catch-all phrase, to avoid trying to write up a six volume set of rules, defining misbehavior on our boards. “Being a jerk” is our euphemism for “misbehaving;” and expressing minority (or weird or just plain wrong) opinions is not misbehaving. Thanks for your clarification. I agree that they shouldn’t be censored if of genuine belief or devils advocate. However also I understand why people might find it tiring when certain people choose to keep hijacking threads with demonstratively wrong and offensive opinions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-racism-being-a-jerk/543883.md?page=4)