# Why isn't the IRA considered a Terrorist Group? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 16, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674 "2005-04-16T20:45:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/101 "2005-04-19T07:51:59Z")
> [@MidwinterF1](#): > > several of my Catholic friends have declared (quietly) that they would vote to maintain the Union, if only for economic reasons (which is a cold and unromantic view in my opinion not to mention most likely mistaken, they seem to think that the Republic is all donkey drawn carts and farmers but I suppose thats what you get for living as far from the Border as its possible to be and still be in Northern Ireland.) 😃 Well, my Dad and I take that view too (Not that the Republic is all carts and farmers in tweed jackets 😉 ) that for economic reasons we may just be better off in the UK. We sat down a while ago and discussed it over dinner. I can’t remember what we brought up, mostly the welfare state. But beleive me, if anyone would jump for the economic reasons over anything else, it would be Dad. He has family and finances enough to make hopping cross border an easier prospect than for most. > [@MidwinterF1](#): > > I take exception to the phrase because its usually implied or outright stated that Catholics had no legitimate reason to turn to violence because Northern Ireland is part of a democracy, until recent times it had absolutely no claim to that title, whether the use of violence was legitimate or not is another argument but the option of change by democratic means was definitely _not_ available. Ah, I see what you mean now. I suppose its a point of contention put like that. ---
**Author:** ![Ponster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponster/32/17081_2.png) [@Ponster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponster)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/102 "2005-04-19T10:42:08Z")
and back to the OP… 🙂 > [@](#): > > Why isn’t the IRA considered a Terrorist Group? What made you think it wasn’t ? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/103 "2005-04-19T11:59:01Z")
> [@](#): > > The murder of Robert McCartney made this plain for everyone to see. this wasn’t an IRA operation, despite attempts by the media to paint it as such. It’s now a rod used to beat Sinn Fein with in the Republic. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/104 "2005-04-19T12:08:39Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I’m saying for all the people killed in the sectarian violence, its good the IRA had to pay a heavy price. do you agree that the British Army also have to pay a price for the crimes it has committed in Northern Ireland? How about the UDA? ---
**Author:** ![Ponster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponster/32/17081_2.png) [@Ponster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponster)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/105 "2005-04-19T12:09:07Z")
But wasn’t it IRA members who did the killing? IMHO it doesn’t really make mush difference if it was an ‘offical’ killing or not and I imagine that Robert McCartney’s sisters feel the same. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/106 "2005-04-19T12:28:25Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > do you agree that the British Army also have to pay a price for the crimes it has committed in Northern Ireland? > > How about the UDA? The British Army was there to protect British citizens against percieved terrorist activities. So no, I don’t think it has to pay a price. But the UDA, definately. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/107 "2005-04-19T12:38:21Z")
> [@Ponster](#): > > But wasn’t it IRA members who did the killing? > > IMHO it doesn’t really make mush difference if it was an ‘offical’ killing or not and I imagine that Robert McCartney’s sisters feel the same. Certainly members of the Republican movement were responsible for it, but it wasn’t the IRA who did it. It certainly doesn’t matter to the McCartney sisters, it also doesn’t matter (for different reasons) to the Unionists and the media. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/108 "2005-04-19T12:43:40Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > The British Army was there to protect British citizens against percieved terrorist activities. So no, I don’t think it has to pay a price. feel free to explain how exactly the murder of Pat Finucane or the 13 unarmed, innocent victims of Bloody Sunday (the one in Northern Ireland, but if you want to have a go at url=“[http://www.gaa.ie/page/bloody\_sunday.html](http://www.gaa.ie/page/bloody_sunday.html)”]this one you’re welcome to ) were justified actions against percieved terrorist activities. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/109 "2005-04-19T13:03:21Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > this wasn’t an IRA operation, despite attempts by the media to paint it as such. It’s now a rod used to beat Sinn Fein with in the Republic. But it could be suggested that Republicans have (with or without some justification) built up an idea that Catholics should keep things within their own community and not come forward to the police. And there is a certain amount of intimidation coming from Republicans towards the McCartney sisters too. Maybe if the IRA and Sinn Fein hadn’t so successfully contributed towards an air of lawlessness in parts of Northern Ireland, the murder wouldn’t have seemed so acceptable to some. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/110 "2005-04-19T13:35:18Z")
> [@](#): > > But it could be suggested that Republicans have (with or without some justification) built up an idea that Catholics should keep things within their own community and not come forward to the police. that’s a 4 pint conversation all by itself. It would be hard for the leadership to suddenly turn around and say “Let’s fully cooperate with the police” after so long decrying the RUC, without potentially creating more grounds for dissidence. that said, there has been a degree of politicing by the PSNI also when it comes to this investigation, such as sending home people who wished to make a statement about the murder “to be contacteed at a more appropriate time”. > [@](#): > > the murder wouldn’t have seemed so acceptable to some. I honestly haven’t seen any indication that the murder was acceptable to anyone. IMO, there’s a very fine line to be thread within the RM to advance the democratic options without alienating some of the grassroot support. One of the problems at the moment is that if the War was declared over, there are people who would be determined to prove it wasn’t, which would put the progress made back a considerable distance. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/111 "2005-04-19T15:01:20Z")
> [@](#): > > The British Army was there to protect British citizens against percieved terrorist activities. So no, I don’t think it has to pay a price. The British Army was there, ostensibly, to protect peaceful protestors from the violence of rioting protestors and the police. Instead, they joined the rioters and police in inflicting violence on peaceful protestors–actually killing peacefl protestors on Bloody Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/112 "2005-04-19T15:46:53Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > Certainly members of the Republican movement were responsible for it, but it wasn’t the IRA who did it. No-one is suggesting that the IRA had any official involvement in what was after all a pub brawl, but the fact remains that it was their members who were involved, their member who is the chief suspect, and their name that was used to warn off the witnesses. So I think my point that the a fair proportion of the IRA membership being simply criminals stands. And that’s before we even consider the IRA’s subsequent offer to murder those responsible. Or the Northern Bank robbery last December. Again, perhaps not an ‘official’ IRA operation, but when IRA members are involved, what’s the difference and who’s to tell? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/113 "2005-04-19T18:52:11Z")
What was the deal with the assassination of Earl Mountbatten? ---
**Author:** ![Buran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@Buran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buran)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/114 "2005-04-19T19:03:54Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What was the deal with the assassination of Earl Mountbatten? It was a strike against the British establishment. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/115 "2005-04-19T19:22:45Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > Or the Northern Bank robbery last December. Again, perhaps not an ‘official’ IRA operation, but when IRA members are involved, what’s the difference and who’s to tell? to reply to this, I’ll quote from the Phoenix Magazine (no online article that can access, unfortunately) > [@](#): > > “that the Northern bank heist was carried out by republicans is clear, but by which republicans is less clear. > Since the Formation of the RIRA there have been regular crossover activities, with dissidents giving unapproved assistance to both the CIRA and the RIRA. > Many Stay behind dissidents had taken a wait-and-see view, hoping that Adams and McGuinness could deliver. > … > By Last cristmas, when Paisley gave his “sackcloth and ashes” speech many of the dissidents had had enough. It’s against this background that the robbery took place > … > That the IRA and SF are in crisis is clear. Where they will go next is impossible to tell. Insider rebels are already speaking of an Adams-McGuinness Fianna Fail style Sinn Fein, divorced from the IRA. If that happens, a new management republican movement run by anti-Adams dissidents will emerge and it’s anyone’s guess what will happen after that” ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/116 "2005-04-19T19:49:17Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What was the deal with the assassination of Earl Mountbatten? Pretty clear if you ask me. It was a message to the British populace and government. GET OUT OR WE’LL KILL YOUR LEADERS, YOUR ESTABLIHMENT AND POSSIBLY YOU! Terrorism 101. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/117 "2005-04-19T21:43:29Z")
I suppose, I just don’t recall ever reading that he was very involved in the Irish issue. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/118 "2005-04-19T21:55:07Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I suppose, I just don’t recall ever reading that he was very involved in the Irish issue. He wasn’t, but he was a member of the Royal Family, a war hero, and a prominent Englishman. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/119 "2005-04-19T21:58:42Z")
> [@](#): > > The attack was followed only hours later by the massacre of 18 soldiers, killed in two booby-trap bomb explosions near Warrenpoint close to the border with the Irish Republic. > > The IRA has already admitted carrying out the attack on Lord Mountbatten. > > A statement from the organisation said:\*\* “This operation is one of the discriminate ways we can bring to the attention of the English people the continuing occupation of our country.” \*\* [http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/27/newsid\_2511000/2511545.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/27/newsid_2511000/2511545.stm) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-ira-considered-a-terrorist-group/299674/120 "2005-04-20T06:50:01Z")
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