# Why isn't the relgious right in America fighting over Easter, instead of Christmas? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2005, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028 "2005-12-04T13:37:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/21 "2005-12-05T05:14:24Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > And this is what the radical Christians want to take away from me. I don’t think anybody wants to take anything away from you. But I’d venture that the idea of a de-Christianized Christmas saddens most Christians. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/22 "2005-12-05T05:20:08Z")
Isn’t it only in the last, oh, maybe 150 years that Christmas has become so huge? It was always big in the Catholic traditions, but many Protestant religions didn’t even celebrate it. ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/23 "2005-12-05T05:30:41Z")
People don’t mess with easter because the easter Bunny will get way pissed and go after their hides. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/24 "2005-12-05T05:53:35Z")
What puzzles me is why Bill O’Reilly is so taken with this issue. Any clues? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/25 "2005-12-05T07:12:04Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > I don’t think anybody wants to take anything away from you. But I’d venture that the idea of a de-Christianized Christmas saddens most Christians. But we aren’t de-Christianizing Christmas. We haven’t been particularly Christian for generations. We never celebrated Christmas as a Christian holiday, but rather as a holiday that is a part of our cultural heritage and the dominant form of the “winter holiday” that is celebrated in every temperate climate. It is as much our tradition as theirs, and we have as much a right to celebrate it as any Christian. Not that it takes much to de-Christianize Christmas. You don’t really think they started putting trees in their houses out of Christian piety, do you? I’ll give you a hint- none of the stuff we do at Christmas appears in the Bible. Europeans have been having a celebration at around this time, with a lot of familiar accouterments, since before Christ was but a twinkle in God’s eyes. I am merely celebrating what my family has always celebrated, from last years orange-jello-with-shredded-carrots and gifts of digital cameras to my ancient ancestor’s naked cavorting around bonfires (or whatever they did back then.) I resent being told that I have no right to this part of my heritage. I resent being told that only the Christians can “own” Christmas. I don’t care how they celebrate it, so why are they so worked up about how I do? I won’t take Christ out of their Christmas if they promise not to stick it in mine. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/26 "2005-12-05T08:14:24Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > I resent being told that I have no right to this part of my heritage. I resent being told that only the Christians can “own” Christmas. Who told you that you have no right to this part of your heritage? I am skeptical that someone actually told you this. ---
**Author:** ![Barely\_Adequate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@Barely\_Adequate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barely_Adequate)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/27 "2005-12-05T09:55:12Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > What puzzles me is why Bill O’Reilly is so taken with this issue. Any clues? He’s an irrepressible ratings whore. He’s “energizing his base”, so to speak. -Richard ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/28 "2005-12-05T19:31:01Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Who told you that you have no right to this part of your heritage? I am skeptical that someone actually told you this. Well, Bill O’Rilley and everyone involved in this contrived “Save Christmas!” BS. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/29 "2005-12-05T20:14:22Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > [hijack]Forty seems to be quite significant. In addition to the above mentions, the rains for Noah’s flood lasted forty days and forty nights. The Israelites journeyed in the desert for forty years after escaping from Egypt. Anyone know the significance of forty?[hijack] “40” is the word the ancient Israelites used to mean “a lot”. K’know, kind of like Watership Down, where “five” means “many”. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/30 "2005-12-05T20:35:12Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > Yeah, but there’s not too much marketing you could do for Lent. Unless it’s “stop yourself from not taking advantage of these Lent sales down at Crazy Eddie’s!” It’s not an event made for commercalization. Although I guess Mardi Gras could be considered part of the “Easter season” and that’s certainly commercial. But [Advent](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advent) is supposed to be a [penitential season](http://www.catholic.org/clife/advent/) as well. That certainly hasn’t stopped Christmas from being commercialized. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/31 "2005-12-05T20:35:45Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > I don’t think anybody wants to take anything away from you. But I’d venture that the idea of a de-Christianized Christmas saddens most Christians. Why? If Christmas were seen as a strictly Christian holiday, it wouldn’t mean there were more people who were Christian, it would just mean that there are less people celebrating Christmas. Why does someone else’s secular Christmas make you feel sad? What does it take away from your religious Christmas? ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/32 "2005-12-06T00:03:09Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > It’s a time of love and family and tradition and sharing. […] On that morning the fire crackles, the kids wake up, Grandma is already cooking, the air smells like pine, and we all feel loved and comfortable and ready to celebrate our family. > > And this is what the radical Christians want to take away from me. […] [W]hen you start telling people that they need Jesus in order to enjoy spending time with their families, and that they need sermons in order to celebrate, and that they can’t have their holiday unless they accept a boatload of baggage, it upsets them. And that is what they are going for. To delegitimize us. To make us angry. To punish us. Makes you wonder what Christmas would be like under their supervision. Prayers for the conversion of their enemies? Adoration of the [stillborn](http://majikthise.typepad.com/majikthise_/2005/04/santorum_fetusm.html)? Whatever, I imagine it’d be a grim totalitarian caricature. Probably with very little drinking and maximum subjugation of women. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/33 "2005-12-06T03:23:04Z")
> [@Fabulous Creature](#): > > Pentecost is the observation 40 days after Easter Sunday to celebrate the coming of the Holy Spirit. The week before Easter is Holy Week; the forty days before Easter is Lent. Actually, Ascension is celebrated 40 days after Easter and celebrates the ascent of Jesus into heaven. Pentecost happens 10 days after Ascension (50 days after Easter), and does commemorate the descent of the Holy Spirit over the Apostles. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/34 "2005-12-06T03:29:05Z")
> [@severus](#): > > Actually, Ascension is celebrated 40 days after Easter and celebrates the ascent of Jesus into heaven. Pentecost happens 10 days after Ascension (50 days after Easter), and does commemorate the descent of the Holy Spirit over the Apostles. Gah! You’re right! I was so concerned with the time frame between Ascension and Pentecost I miscalculated. Bad lapsed Catholic! Bad! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/35 "2005-12-06T03:30:16Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Gah! You’re right! I was so concerned with the time frame between Ascension and Pentecost I miscalculated. Bad lapsed Catholic! Bad! 😃 Heh…never mind. I made the same mistake in my post about 40 and thought you were responding to me… ---
**Author:** ![AThingWithFeathers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@AThingWithFeathers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AThingWithFeathers)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/36 "2005-12-06T03:54:52Z")
I don’t know if this has anything to do with it, but the Roman Church, of which most American Christian sects have departed/evolved from places more of an emphasis on Christmas than Easter, whereas the Orthodox Church places more emphasis on Easter. (Or so I learned in 9th grade history.) The logical progression (i.e., my WAG) I get from this is that since Christmas is more widely celebrated and celebrated with more emphasis in America, it became more commercialized for the sake of selling goods to those who celebrate it. In the article that **Anna Neville** cited, the actual penitential actions listed seem to be not having lots of instrumental music and decorating sparsely, neither of which were really observed at my church (which isn’t to say they weren’t supposed to be observed.) For the purposes of explanation, I learned that Advent was about encouraging your faith, hope, charity, and whatever that fourth candle stood for, although according to this [educational site](http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/Advent.html), fasting was observed six weeks before christmas, then shortened to the current four weeks of Advent, although the fasting was eventually dropped. It seems to me that the fasting stopped before the commercialization of Christmas, although that is my interpretation of the text. As opposed to Advent, Lent is still taught by the (Catholic) Church as a time to fast/do good chores/give up sweets as atonement for our sins and to understand Jesus’ self sacrifice through out own sacrifices. (Disclaimer: YMMV between congregations.) No one really celebrates Easter unless you’re Christian, but many non-Christians celebrate Christmas. I don’t particularly know why, but because Lent and Easter are only celebrated within the Church, I suppose it needs less defending? The phrase Happy Easter isn’t very common anyway. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/37 "2005-12-08T19:52:19Z")
> [@AThingWithFeathers](#): > > I don’t know if this has anything to do with it, but the Roman Church, of which most American Christian sects have departed/evolved from places more of an emphasis on Christmas than Easter, whereas the Orthodox Church places more emphasis on Easter. I don’t know. RC churches in the US tend to have the biggest production values around Easter. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AvaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AvaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AvaB)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/38 "2005-12-09T07:54:06Z")
I grew up in Louisiana, where Mardi Gras and Ash Wednesday are a HUGE deal all over the state, and an official holiday. We got time off from schooland everything. When I later attended school elsewhere, I was appalled that we didn’t get this consideration - I had believed time off for partying and recuperation was universal. Now, the New Orleans carnival has become extremely secularized (this is not true of several locations in the state). Mardi Gras is spreading, with parades and celebrations in several cities in many states. But it isn’t the purple, green, and gold of religious association, but the red-eyed haze of secularization which has caused this popularity. Carnivale in Rio is another good example (although FAR less extensive) of the secularization of the beginning of Lent. By the by, red was officially added, in Louisiana, at least, as a Mardi Gras color in the 80’s or early 90’s. As it clashed horribly, it wasn’t adopted by most folks. Although it may have begun as a religious holiday, it has become accepted as something completely different. Fine by me. Same with every holiday. I’m sure followers of Mithras were royally pissed when Jesus usurped his birthday. Oestre got off easy, by comparison. “Successful celebrations will be justified by and made to conform to the dominant paradigm” - Ava’s first rule of partying. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/39 "2005-12-09T08:07:39Z")
But Mardi Gras was _never_ a religious holiday, and that was the point. It was a big pagan blowout before Lent began on Ash Wednesday. ---
**Author:** ![AvaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AvaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AvaB)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028/40 "2005-12-09T08:34:11Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > But Mardi Gras was _never_ a religious holiday, and that was the point. It was a big pagan blowout before Lent began on Ash Wednesday. Yeah, a big pagan blowout for _Catholics_ . Actual pagans, protestants, atheists, and others who don’t stop eating meat, binge drinking, and partying during Lent have no other reason to do it, other than, “Hey, that looks fun! Let’s all join in!”. Speaking as one who couldn’t give a rat’s ass about it, one way or the other, naturally… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-the-relgious-right-in-america-fighting-over-easter-instead-of-christmas/334028.md?page=3)