# Why isn't welfare considered a good economic strategy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-welfare-considered-a-good-economic-strategy/575172 "2011-03-18T17:12:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-welfare-considered-a-good-economic-strategy/575172/81 "2011-07-14T12:59:31Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > The most common argument you’ll hear is: “why should my hard earned money go to these deadbeats.” > > It has nothing to do with economics and more to do with moral judgment, if you ask me. Moral hazard IS economics. The economic issue is that when you take money away from hard working people and give it to people who are less productive, it creates disincentives to work so hard. In real terms, that means people are less inclined to take risks in starting new ventures which provide new businesses with new jobs that ultimately increase overall wealth. On the flip side of that, it also reduces disincentives to make bad choices since the risks are reduced. And as those disincentives take effect, there is less money to distribute as less wealth is created. However, having vast numbers of poor and homeless people also incur an economic cost. So ultimately there is some ideal amount for taxation and spending on safty net programs. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-welfare-considered-a-good-economic-strategy/575172/82 "2011-07-14T15:14:44Z")
> [@Borzo](#): > > Is there no economic value to welfare? I mean… there’s a **huge economic cost associated with a ghetto full of unemployed… drugs, crime, violence, health problems,** etc (and possibly rioting if it gets bad enough).The government would have to spend (lose) even more money on such situations if welfare didn’t exist to meet peoples’ very fundamental basic needs. Do you disagree? > > snip Bolding mine- Rather than thinking of these as economic costs, try thinking of them as actually sustaining employment for the middle class. Welfare workers, drug treatment centers, police officers and court workers, health clinics etc are generally jobs held by the middle class. If these issues were completely and permanently resolved a lot of people would lose their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-welfare-considered-a-good-economic-strategy/575172/83 "2011-07-14T15:37:59Z")
> [@Spit](#): > > Have you ever been hired by someone on welfare? I don’t see a lot of IPO’s with Darla McTrailerqueen or Chuck Downonhisluck at the helm. Those businesses hire people who make more money than they would on welfare, and increase their standard of living. Some of those folks go on to create their own business and hire more people. Have you ever been laid off by a corporation that is outsourcing their work? Corporations have been spending a decade or two slashing workers. If poor people don’t fire you, they are doing less damage than corporations who do. Poor people spend all their money buying things to survive. That is called demand. If enough poor people have money, demand will go up , then companies will hire. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-welfare-considered-a-good-economic-strategy/575172/84 "2011-07-14T16:08:29Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Have you ever been laid off by a corporation that is outsourcing their work? Corporations have been spending a decade or two slashing workers. If poor people don’t fire you, they are doing less damage than corporations who do. > Poor people spend all their money buying things to survive. That is called demand. If enough poor people have money, demand will go up , then companies will hire. There is some economic benefit to giving money to those who have none because it goes back into the economy. But that won’t be self maintaining. It is a means of short term economic stabilization. It also reduces the costs of allowing people to live in severe poverty, which results in crime, disease, and generational poverty. But increased demand does not translate directly to jobs in our modern technological society, or when the jobs can be created in some other country. I see economic advantages to welfare, but it makes no sense as a strategy, only as a tactic. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-welfare-considered-a-good-economic-strategy/575172/85 "2011-07-14T16:33:34Z")
Social Security is a big demand producer. The Repubs want to kill that too. Is there anything they do that makes the middle class and poor, thing they have their interests in any calculation? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-welfare-considered-a-good-economic-strategy/575172/86 "2011-07-14T17:04:29Z")
Social Security is not welfare. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-welfare-considered-a-good-economic-strategy/575172/87 "2011-07-14T20:27:55Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Social Security is not welfare. The thread is about an economic strategy. Social security is an important deamand producer. It creates jobs. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-welfare-considered-a-good-economic-strategy/575172/88 "2011-07-14T21:06:03Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The thread is about an economic strategy. Social security is an important deamand producer. It creates jobs. The thread is “Why isn’t **welfare** considered a good economic strategy?”. You can make a comparison between welfare and Social Security if you want. But you just threw it out there without any explanation of why. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-welfare-considered-a-good-economic-strategy/575172/89 "2011-07-15T01:24:16Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The thread is “Why isn’t **welfare** considered a good economic strategy?”. You can make a comparison between welfare and Social Security if you want. But you just threw it out there without any explanation of why. I guess I did spread it out. But both are programs that put money into the economy that enjoy the multiplier effect. They create demand and therefore jobs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-welfare-considered-a-good-economic-strategy/575172.md?page=4)