# Why isn't Zoroastrianism more popular? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 13, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282 "2005-03-13T02:55:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/1 "2005-03-13T02:55:23Z")
It seems that Zoroastrianism is a simple religion with a strong moral message, almost humanistic. Sure, there are rituals and prayers, but the most important rituals (padyab kusti as a regular ritual, navjot as an initiation ritual) are very, very simple. Plus, there are no major dietary restrictions. Many people look for a religion or religious message that appeals to them rather than sticking to the religion they were born in. Neopagan traditions have arisen from interest in ancient religions. Zoroastrianism is a very ancient religion, existing during the time of religions that neopagans try to recreate. But the message of Zoroastrianism is so simple: good words, good thoughts, good deeds. Support goodness, do not support evil. With such a message compatible with the modern world (not to mention very simple too), with the ability to claim thousands of years of history, why isn’t Zoroastrianism more popular? WRS ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/2 "2005-03-13T03:08:33Z")
Do Zoroastrians proselytize? ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/3 "2005-03-13T03:08:57Z")
I **love** the band “Queen” To answer the question, they **are** popular. So poular that christians stole the concept of angels, the devil and hell from them. P.S. Freddy Mercury was a born Zoroaster, to Persain-English parents, and was either cremated, or put on a “tower of silence” one of those tradition Zoroaster funerals. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/4 "2005-03-13T03:28:03Z")
> [@GilaB](#): > > Do Zoroastrians proselytize? Not generally, no. And therein lies half of the answer, the other half of the equation being that Zoroastrianism is a rather obscure faith to most non-Zoroastrians. Indeed some conservative Zoroastrians don’t even recognize conversions. To them the faith is ethnic in nature - you can only be born into it by two Zoroastrian parents ( and marriage to non-Zoroastrians is forbidden ). Of course there is no equanimity on that point and some practicing Zoroastrians do recognize converts ( but generally don’t seek them ). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/5 "2005-03-13T03:29:22Z")
One of these days I will actually start putting sites in the same post in my “claim of fact post.” Ok, look at any bible. The copyright page will state “Coyright 500 A.D., By Bob Dole.” However, the Holy Freddy Mercury Solo album clearly states “copyright 300 B.C.” In other words, The zoroasters had the ideas first, as we can see through historical records. I tried to look for a source on usenet, but all I found was: 0 WAYS TO CONFUSE YOUR ROOMMATE “By Brian and Andy” 1. Pray to Azazoth or Zoroaster. Sacrifice something nasty. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/6 "2005-03-13T03:35:29Z")
Argh! That should have been 50 ways, not 0 ways, and yes, I know that Zoroaster is not the god, but the main profit, and probabley a real, living person. Well,\*\* was\*\* a real person… [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/7 "2005-03-13T03:40:10Z")
It’s too hard to spell. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/8 "2005-03-13T03:45:09Z")
Not only don’t they proselytize, they don’t go out of their way to make the elements of their faith accessible. There’s an exhibit on Zoroastrianism in the American Museum of Natural History’s Hall of Man in Asia, which includes items available i Amerca today. Things like an English translation of the i]Zend Avesta\*. But don’t try an find it in your local bookstore, or even in a specialty bookstore. At best you can find general books about Zoroastrianism, or more generally books on religion with a chapter on Zoroastrianism. A couple of years ago I stumbled on a Zoroastrian website. It was basically a matchmaking site for Zoroastrians, helping them to find mates who are also Zoroastrians. They like to marry within the faith, which seems consistent with what others have written above about their closed-society ways. By the way, as I noted in an earlier thread about which relgion migh have taken over the Roman Empre had Chritianity failed, _Mithraism_, which has beeb believed by many to be a Westernized form of Zoroastrianism may, in fact, be nothin of the sort. David Ulansey’s book **The Origins of the Mithraic Mysteries** argues that Mithraism is, in essence, a synthetic faith that drew some of its elements and imagery from the much older religion, but which was mostly new material. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/9 "2005-03-13T03:59:11Z")
> [@Scott\_plaid](#): > > Argh! That should have been 50 ways, not 0 ways, and yes, I know that Zoroaster is not the god, but the main profit, and probabley a real, living person. Well,\*\* was\*\* a real person… > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster) I suppose you mean **prophet**. 🙂 Unlike Christians with Jesus and Muslims with Muhammad, Zoroastrians can’t really make a profit off of their prophet. I guess the most popular exposure people get to Zoroaster is from Nietzsche’s work, _Thus Spake Zarathustra_ (he is known as “Zarathushtra” amongst Zoroastrians). It’s almost frustrating that Zoroastrians do not actively seek converts. (I know there are a few who do, but they are the minority, I believe.) Their religious is so cool and old. I’d hate to see it go extinct. What are religious rights for Zoroastrians in Iran like? Can they practice their faith freely? Do they have fire temples there? WRS ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/10 "2005-03-13T04:05:56Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > they don’t go out of their way to make the elements of their faith accessible. this goes back to my earlier comment re: christianity stealing elements. They might have been more open had they not been “burned” “Once bitten, twice shy.” ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/11 "2005-03-13T04:20:17Z")
Scott, you seem to have a pretty good surficial knowledge of this stuff – get your data together and present it. Mine is pretty limited, or I’d do likewise. FWIW, most scholars are convinced that much of the conceptions (God vs. Devil, good and fallen agnels, etc.) of later **Judaism** derive from exposure to Masdism (preferred term, for the same reason as “Islam” rather than “Mohammedanism”) during the Exile. Early Christianity bought into these pretty much whole hog, rather than borrowing anything directly. Cal’s point about Mithraism is well taken too. You will find scholars that claim that some basic Christian doctrines are formulated as they are essentially to “steal a march” on Mithraism, to pull the rug out from under it by teaching similar things but in a different context. (If **Gaudere** sees this thread, she might grace us with her Mithrasmas Carol, which is a perfect parody.) Not to mention Zurvanism, or the sweet Baha’i and Baha’i. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/12 "2005-03-13T04:29:18Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Scott, you seem to have a pretty good surficial knowledge of this stuff – get your data together and present it. Mine is pretty limited, or I’d do likewise. No can do. Doctor Who is coming on soon. But here is a very biased link, albeit argueing towards my point: [http://www.iidb.org/vbb/printthread.php?t=89605](http://www.iidb.org/vbb/printthread.php?t=89605) [http://realmagick.com/articles/51/1551.html](http://realmagick.com/articles/51/1551.html) ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/13 "2005-03-13T04:38:11Z")
P.S. In Judaism, the Devil is “The Devil’s Advocate” or the lawyer for the opposition, and is a servant of god. In Christianity, he is some sort of creation of god’s which can somehow rebel against him. Never made much sense to me, for an all wise being to do. In Zoroasterism, he is simply a rival god, as I vaguely remember, which makes much more sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/14 "2005-03-13T04:51:40Z")
My WAG is that it’s not that popular for the same reason Judaism isn’t all that popular (well-known, yes, but nowhere near the numbers of Christianity or Islam). Christianity and Islam are both evangelical, or at least have evangelical strains. Judaism doesn’t - other than some limited circumstances, like mixed-faith marriages, Judaism doesn’t really care about expanding its membership and makes no effort to get converts. Maybe it’s the same deal with Zoroastrianism. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/15 "2005-03-13T04:54:08Z")
The concept of a final day of judgement also came fron Zoroaster as did the entire idea of a cosmic conflict between good and evil. ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/16 "2005-03-13T05:01:09Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Not to mention Zurvanism, or the sweet Baha’i and Baha’i. What relation are you implying between Zoroastrianism and Baha’i? Everything I’ve read suggests a derivation from Shia Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/17 "2005-03-13T05:04:58Z")
> [@zagloba](#): > > What relation are you implying between Zoroastrianism and Baha’i? Everything I’ve read suggests a derivation from Shia Islam. None, save that like Islam, Judaism, and Christianity, they both originally derived from that Mideast mindset. It was merely an “…and other faiths, including…” attached to the end of my post. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/18 "2005-03-13T05:11:19Z")
Could not Zoroastrianism be considered the source of the original Hindu religion (based on the Vedas, what with Agni playing such an important role, with the high value of cattle, etc.)? It seems that there are also very close connections between Avestan and Sanskrit. WRS ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/19 "2005-03-13T05:14:28Z")
There are only around 150,000 Zoroastrians on earth. Such a pittance makes it unlikely that the faith is going to take flight anytime soon. Additionally, a great percentage of the faithful live in Iran. Iranian law dictates death for anyone who converts from Islam to any other faith, thereby limiting the spread of the religion there. Plus (as has been mentioned) many Zoroastrians refuse the whole idea of conversion. How are Zoroastrians treated in Iran? Pretty well when compared to other non-Islamic faiths. The whole no converts thing makes them seem pretty tame to the mullahs. There is no big group of foreign Zoroastrians that threaten Iran. Finally, Zoroastrian is a Persian faith (although the same could be said of the Baha’i and those people are under severe pressure in Iran). ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282/20 "2005-03-13T05:19:03Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > None, save that like Islam, Judaism, and Christianity, they both originally derived from that Mideast mindset. It was merely an “…and other faiths, including…” attached to the end of my post. That’s what I suspected – the mention of Zurvanism threw me since I hadn’t heard of it, but it apparently _did_ split off from Zorastrianism. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-isnt-zoroastrianism-more-popular/294282.md?page=2)