# Why Jesus is not God and can't be God. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 1, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115 "2013-08-01T23:10:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Arch\_Trout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@Arch\_Trout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arch_Trout)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/161 "2013-08-14T12:55:57Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > As a human parent, I would never give my child anything that would harm it, nor hold back anything that I knew was for it’s own good. Free will is not,You can go to the movies, but is it is not what I want for you , but if you do go I will kill you. > > If a person has free will he would not be punished for doing his own thing. But God isn’t your actual parent. Yes I know people use the term Father when describing God but he’s not your parent. What if you thought of God more like a state, a supreme law giver? The state allows you to choose to do whatever you like but there will be consequences should you choose to break the law. Would you extend your argument to say that anyone living in any kind of society that has consequences for breaking laws is essentially not free? Their free will is meaningless? “Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains” type thing? ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/162 "2013-08-14T19:29:36Z")
The Holy Trinity (HT) is a paradox that has perplexed Christian scholars for many centuries. I have engaged in original research and analysis on this very subject since the beginning of my professional career and am now ready to submit my manuscript for peer review in professional publications. The HT model, as I see it, is actually quite logical, elegant and, if I may be so bold…beautiful. Let me explain in layman’s terms: the Holy Trinity can best be conceptualized as being Siamese triplets, whereby God is the healthy sibling in the middle, containing the sole gastrointestinal track. Jesus and the Holy Ghost are the parasitic siblings on either side of God, attached at the gut. God is made out of dark matter and he eats dark energy to make him all-powerful. Parasitic Holy Ghost is made out of ectoplasm just like any old ghost, and he saps away just enough of God’s energy to give him some impressive, if not awesome powers, like floating through walls and throwing his voice. Parasitic Jesus is made of matter, just like you and me, and he saps away just enough energy from God to allow him to do some remarkable parlor tricks, like walking on water and moving large rocks out of the way. Satan is best conceptualized as being an evil Siamese triplet made of antimatter, anti-dark matter, and anti-ectoplasm. The Holy Trinity and the Evil Trinity don’t mix well together. The next big question is, “what gave birth to the Holy Trinity.” This is, indeed a deeper question and one that I have only begun to tackle. But, first, we must think of the Big Bang’s singularity as a large celestial vagina… - I’m still debating about which scientific and/or theological publications I should submit to, but I want the word “meta” in there somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/163 "2013-08-14T20:15:12Z")
You left out the tissue connection between the Holy Ghost and the Son, forming a circle, so that no one of them can truly be said to be in the “middle.” Now, I’m guessing they’re standing facing outward… ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/164 "2013-08-14T21:33:55Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > You left out the tissue connection between the Holy Ghost and the Son, forming a circle… By gum, you’re right, I forgot to mention that the Son and [del]Casper [/DEL] the Holy Ghost are co-joined at the little toe. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/165 "2013-08-15T01:21:43Z")
See? A major theological issue, settled and agreed upon, in the space of only three posts. Who says it has to be contentious? All churches and sects could learn a lesson of wisdom from this. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/166 "2013-08-15T13:05:31Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > What it is, is the best the early church could come up with to explain the fact that sometimes in Scripture the Father, Jesus, and the Spirit seem to be different entities; yet all seem to be God and God is One. It’s essentially a big copout; the church fathers said “God is three, yet God is one. We don’t really understand it either.” > > In fact there is a famous story about St. Augustine walking along the beach deep in thought, trying to understand the how God can be Three in One. He comes upon a young boy carrying a pail of water from the sea to a hole he has dug in the sand. Augustine watches the boy go back and forth a few times and finally asks him what he is doing. “I’m putting the sea in this hole in the sand,” says the boy. > > Augustine protests: “The sea is much to large to fit! It’s impossible!” to which the boy replies, “So, too, is it impossible for your mind to hold the mystery of the Trinity!.” > > So even back then, theologians were kind of throwing up their hands. If: as the psalmist says all are gods, then God is human, male or female, and spirit it would be a way to call that a trinity of natures? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/167 "2013-08-15T13:21:20Z")
> [@Arch\_Trout](#): > > But God isn’t your actual parent. Yes I know people use the term Father when describing God but he’s not your parent. > > What if you thought of God more like a state, a supreme law giver? > The state allows you to choose to do whatever you like but there will be consequences should you choose to break the law. > > Would you extend your argument to say that anyone living in any kind of society that has consequences for breaking laws is essentially not free? Their free will is meaningless? > > “Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains” type thing? The religious people I know state that God is all knowing, and loving, but there is a contradiction to that statement. In a society a free will is limited. If one must do the will of the father( as some teach) then it is not free will! If one’s will is opposite of the Father’s they are punished. Being called a child of God makes him a parent, that is why they pray “Our Father”! A good father doesn’t allow his child to go or do what is harmful to his child or others he encounters! ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/168 "2013-08-15T19:23:56Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > . . . In a society a free will is limited. If one must do the will of the father( as some teach) then it is not free will! . . . Well, yes and no. In society, although I may not murder, I can still want to. I can still dream of it, and make secret plans (buy weapons, accumulate chemicals, whatever.) My will is not limited, save as I limit myself because I don’t want to get caught. I agree I’m not “free” to act however I might want. But if the situation changed – if the government fell and lawlessness prevailed – my will is not altered in any way. Internally, I’m still exactly the same. Free Will is tricky, when we act against our own choices. i.e., when we’re on a diet, but eat a candy bar anyway. We have internal conflicts, and our will contests against itself. ---
**Author:** ![TARL\_FURY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@TARL\_FURY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TARL_FURY)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/169 "2013-08-16T10:48:35Z")
With all due respect for anyone’s OPINION that is what we are dis/agreeing upon. The fact is, the words/verses/books selected for inclusion in the “Holy Bible” were selected a LONG time ago. IMHO, it all comes down to power and control over others. I look forward to having a great discussion with any of you. I promise to respect your rights to any/all opinions even as I maintain my own right to differ. Some background info about me is that I attended the Salvation Army Officer’s School several years ago before eventually quitting the course in confusion & even disgust at what I was being taught about a so-called “loving God” who seemed to me to have a lot of mortal/ethical imperfections. I am currently in the process of writing a book about the failures of religion as clearly & honestly as I am capable. I realize that this discussion could become grand enough to be a thread of its own, and if the volume warrants it, I will be happy to start a thread of my own. Thank you for your attention. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/170 "2013-08-16T12:08:41Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I’m not disputing whether the Christians say God is all-knowing; I’m asking whether the Jews say God is all-knowing. I don’t have the answer but there are now many secular Jews. The Jewish people do not make a big deal out of their religion as Christians do. They do not run around try9ig to convert people, or send out Missionaries. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/171 "2013-08-16T12:12:40Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#): > > Like i said, just because God can use his ability to look ahead doesn’t mean he always _would_ use it. God created Job with free will just as Adam had free will. The bible is full of warning and guidance yes entire books of advice. (like Proverbs!) > > Why all this advice and pleas from God to make him happy by making the right choice? Is God that stupid to warn us and give advice while knowing ahead you’re gonna knock over that bank or get pregnant by the quarterback anyway? > > What do \*\*you \*\*think? > > Please note it was not God that killed Job’s kin, but Satan was willing to go to any length to crush Job’s loyalty. Maybe you should read it over again slowly and see that even at the worst moment Job expressed his faith in resurrection. > Job 14:15 > > Maybe it’s not in God’s personality to always want to peek into the future, but…have some faith all will turn out alright. (Everybody hates spoilers) > People, have some faith will ya? > Some verses on Christ being an angel way before being a man: > > **Galatians 4:14** though my condition put you to the test, you did not scorn or despise me, but welcomed me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus. > _New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition_ > > **Colossians 1:15** > He is the \*\*image \*\*of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. > \*New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition \* > > Who is the \*\*image \*\*of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: > \*King James Version \* > > Please note that i made the word image bold as you all have read that before in Genesis where us humans are described as being _creations_ in God’s _image_. Think on it. > > **John 7:28,29 28** herefore Jesus cried out as he was teaching in the temple and said: “YOU​ both know me and know where I am from. Also, I have not come of my own initiative, but he that **sent** me is real, and ​YOU​ do not know him.29 I know him, because I am a **representative** from him, and that One **sent** me forth.” > Now for Jesus claiming they knew him and where he was from is not about him being born in Bethlehem and his post code… The whole Old Testament is full of Messianic prophesies. > > You probably know the first one: **Genesis 3:15**. Read and note that it foretells the snake (Satan) crushing Jesus in the heel and Jesus crushing the snake in the head. A heel or foot injury can cause to fall but is not ultimate or fatal. You can rise from that injury and Jesus was indeed resurrected. The bible mentions the Archangel (or chief of angels) Michael fighting the Dragon or Great Snake identified as Satan. Michael = Jesus but i’ll continue that later in this post. > > Many Christians think they don’t need the Old Testament, but we do. It’s quite impossible to understand the identity of the Christ/Messiah without all the prophesy and background of Israel. Jesus didn’t just show up on a whim, the entire combined nation (both Judea and Samaria) were \*\*expecting \*\*the Messiah to be born around the year he was born. Why so? Because they knew their scriptures! > > For example if i tell you Jesus fulfilled/ended the Mosaic Law, do you understand? > If i say Jesus and Melchizedek in one sentence, does a bell ring? **Hebrews 5:1-10** > > Do you understand Jesus died on a special religious day, just before the high priest would make the sacrifice to commemorate liberation from Egypt? Do you know what it means that the High Priest himself convicted Jesus and what that means? Can you combine the term Lamb of God combined with the above? > > Do you understand Jesus being a superior High Priest that could make a sacrifice that would \*\* not have to be repeated every year?\*\* (namely his own life) > A sacrifice that was a much greater fulfillment of the liberation from Egypt in Moses’ days. > > Just a selection from **Hebrews 7:** > > “23 Furthermore, the former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office; > 24 but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues forever. > 25 Consequently he is able for all time to save[e] those who _ **approach God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.** _ > 26 For it was fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, blameless, undefiled, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens. > 27 Unlike the other[f] high priests, he has no need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for those of the people; this he did once for all when he offered himself. > 28 For the law appoints as high priests those who are subject to weakness, but the word of the oath, which came later than the law, appoints a Son who has been made perfect forever.” > > Jesus is evidently not God Almighty, i’ll keep saying it. Your own bible tells you exactly who he is and what he does for us. He mediates for us, just like Moses, Aaron, and Israel’s High Priests did. Except Christ being the Son of God, the very first of all angels being a superior priest. > > Do you understand why he had to die? Why the word ransom is sometimes used? > > Some other posters said i’m on a loser here as it is a matter of faith. I agree, i am on a loser here. I gave my two cents. > **The Michael-Jesus Connection** : > > Jude 1:9 and then 1 Thessalonians 4:16 > Revelation 12:7 and then Revelation 19:14-16 > > 2 Thessalonians 1:7; Matthew 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22 These verses speak of Michael leading angels and Jesus leading angels. There is only _ **one** _ Archangel in the bible though and the bible does not speak of two armies of angels. Hence Michael=Jesus Christ in his heavenly form. > Matthew 13:41 > > **John 17: 5** So now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed. > _New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition_ > In the entire bible only two names of holy angels are mentioned. Michael and Gabriel. All other angels are not named and when they were asked they said their names were not important. > > Now if you read Daniel, Michael is called the prince of Daniel’s people. And the angel speaking to Daniel says he was held up by the (demon) prince of Persia for twenty one days and Michael came to help him. Daniel: 10:13, 20, 21; 12:1 > > Exodus also speaks of God sending his people an angel to lead them through the wilderness and into the promised land. Compare that to Jude 9 where Michael and the Devil argue about Moses’ body. Ex 23:20, 21, 23; 32:34; 33:2 > > Revelation 12 mentions Michael and The Christ in the same setting, 12:7 and 12:10. Then in Revelation 19:11-16 Jesus Christ can be identified leading God’s armies as the rider on the white horse, called The Word of God. > Compare John 1:1 _The Word of God, or God’s spokesman._ > > Michael translates “Who is like God?” a fitting name for God’s champion. > > Sorry for the delay…been busy, > > Ruben. > Oh and by the way… The God of the Old Testament is the same of the New Testament. The word jealous is misunderstood. (Like Oprah totally did.) > > When Adam and Eve rebelled, did God kill them on the spot??? > NO. So here we, their offspring are still alive to call Him a vengeful mean bastard. > > When Cain murdered his innocent younger brother did God kill him on the spot??? > NO, Cain unremorseful of his disgusting crime even pleaded upon God’s mercy. Because he knew God! > > When the earth was filled with violence and mankind defiled by the Nephilim and their demon fathers did God instantly wipe out mankind? > NO, he gave warning for at least **50 years** through Noah and his family whom did not only build but also warned of judgement. > > In fact every time one reads the OT it is clear that JHWH gives warning and a way out for those with the right state of heart. That is if you actually read the Old Testament. (all of it) The Mosaic Law even has laws preventing animal cruelty! > > God says in Exodus he is a jealous God. But don’t confuse that with jealous like your family or lover. It means **demanding exclusive worship.** Is that unfair for the Creator of all living things, even the universe, to ask??? > > Is God wrong and petty to ask his people, those that agreed with loud voices on the mountains when they made the Covenant with JHWH? Is he wrong to ask his people not to worship Baal, Marduk, Dagon, Semiramis? Or Shiva, Vishnu, Buddha the pope or the United Nations? > > Read the OT and see that God did not make such claims upon _other peoples_ that had no **covenant** with him. Why does it even need explaining that the Almighty God would ask to be treated as the Almighty God? > We don’t have to choose His side. But if you do, know that he asks exclusive devotion. If you can’t give that loyalty and don’t like exclusive relations, simply don’t get involved. > > You can always serve kings, presidents, clerics, CEOs, companies, countries or societies and see how forgiving they are when you’re even only perceived as disloyal. I hear a certain Bradley is being shown a lot of consideration for his troubled conscience. How do you KNOW that God said or did anything? It is the work, and words of another human, ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/172 "2013-08-16T12:22:08Z")
> [@Arch\_Trout](#): > > But God isn’t your actual parent. Yes I know people use the term Father when describing God but he’s not your parent. > > What if you thought of God more like a state, a supreme law giver? > The state allows you to choose to do whatever you like but there will be consequences should you choose to break the law. > > Would you extend your argument to say that anyone living in any kind of society that has consequences for breaking laws is essentially not free? Their free will is meaningless? > > “Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains” type thing? The state doesn’t give free will. Laws of any kind curb free will. I don’t believe any good father would allow his child to do harm to himself and others, if the human knew ahead of time. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/173 "2013-08-16T12:30:26Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > How do you KNOW that God said or did anything? It is the work, and words of another human, I should have added that God allowed the killing of Job’s family and in a way he is responsible for letting the family be killed, It makes no sense for an all powerful being to have bets with a monster that he created. And Adam and Eve were as innocent as a new born baby, yet God put the punishment of death on them and all their prodigy. ---
**Author:** ![TARL\_FURY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@TARL\_FURY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TARL_FURY)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/174 "2013-08-16T17:38:52Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I should have added that God allowed the killing of Job’s family and in a way he is responsible for letting the family be killed, It makes no sense for an all powerful being to have bets with a monster that he created. And Adam and Eve were as innocent as a new born baby, yet God put the punishment of death on them and all their prodigy. Amen, I agree completely. Surely an all-knowing and infinitely-powerful GOD would not have ANY problems with its own creations? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/175 "2013-08-16T20:54:23Z")
> [@TARL\_FURY](#): > > With all due respect for anyone’s OPINION that is what we are dis/agreeing upon. . . . Definitely, opinion is the only final arbiter, as there are no tests we can apply to God to determine his one-ness or three-ness. We do have a semi-scientific process, by examining the Bible. This requires postulating that the Bible is true. It is well, of course, occasionally to step back and remember that this postulate is not accepted. But we can accept it “for the sake of argument,” and see where it leads. It’s a little like people who get into lovely deep debates over Sherlock Holmes. The only “evidence” we have are the stories and novels, but, when one grants, “for the sake of argument” that the stories and novels are valid, then you can have some fun seeking truth within that framework. ---
**Author:** ![ruben4ruben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@ruben4ruben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruben4ruben)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/176 "2013-08-18T23:22:11Z")
> [@TARL\_FURY](#): > > With all due respect for anyone’s OPINION that is what we are dis/agreeing upon. The fact is, the words/verses/books selected for inclusion in the “Holy Bible” were selected a LONG time ago. IMHO, it all comes down to power and control over others. > > I look forward to having a great discussion with any of you. I promise to respect your rights to any/all opinions even as I maintain my own right to differ. > > Some background info about me is that I attended the Salvation Army Officer’s School several years ago before eventually quitting the course in confusion & even disgust at what I was being taught about a so-called “loving God” who seemed to me to have a lot of mortal/ethical imperfections. I am currently in the process of writing a book about the failures of religion as clearly & honestly as I am capable. > > I realize that this discussion could become grand enough to be a thread of its own, and if the volume warrants it, I will be happy to start a thread of my own. > > Thank you for your attention. Start the thread if you want, could be a fun debate. I can say i already agree with you about religion being a failure and racket. (and disgusting) But i believe religion will be banned and outlawed worldwide soon enough. (the fall of Babylon the Great) And still i believe. (i’m just selective about it) ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/177 "2013-08-19T00:02:30Z")
> [@TARL\_FURY](#): > > With all due respect for anyone’s OPINION that is what we are dis/agreeing upon. The fact is, the words/verses/books selected for inclusion in the “Holy Bible” were selected a LONG time ago. IMHO, it all comes down to power and control over others. > > I look forward to having a great discussion with any of you. I promise to respect your rights to any/all opinions even as I maintain my own right to differ. > > Some background info about me is that I attended the Salvation Army Officer’s School several years ago before eventually quitting the course in confusion & even disgust at what I was being taught about a so-called “loving God” who seemed to me to have a lot of mortal/ethical imperfections. I am currently in the process of writing a book about the failures of religion as clearly & honestly as I am capable. > > I realize that this discussion could become grand enough to be a thread of its own, and if the volume warrants it, I will be happy to start a thread of my own. > > Thank you for your attention. As I see it, there are three basic ways of looking at Scripture … 1. God exists and has inspired the oral traditions and writings of the Bible in such a way that it is largely inerrant, perhaps with the exception of a few translation quirks or period colloquialisms. 2. God exists, but His message to humanity, if any, has been twisted, edited, rephrased, and corrupted to the point of complete confusion … we can’t know where His word starts and human lies and deceptions stop. In short, we can guess at what is Holy Scripture and what is manipulative, politically motivated filler, but we probably have no real way of knowing. 3. God is a myth … the Bible is a superstitious collection of fables and parables, largely lifted from other cults or manufactured in an effort to control the masses. Option 1. is the least interesting to me, since it really only prompts nit-picking by linguists and anthropologists. Number 2. can keep you busy arguing, but there’s no conclusive evidence involved, so it’s all subjective. The third choice is an easy target, and it plays well to the atheists who continue to upbraid believers, as though those believers will suddenly be swayed by their arrogance, shamed into admitting their delusions by scathing displays of condescension. A thread aimed at criticizing religion most resembles option three, even among believers, because the adherents to the first choice will stolidly resist the suggestion that their particular brand of faith is flawed. In other words, to strict literalists, you may as well be an atheist if you don’t agree with them. Since atheists are essentially threadshitters in any sincere discussion of a Deity, only the befuddled devotees of the 2nd option have any real potential for a useful debate … that is if you consider confusion to be useful. Please proceed, looking forward to your new thread. ---
**Author:** ![ruben4ruben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@ruben4ruben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruben4ruben)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/178 "2013-08-19T00:10:40Z")
You forgot option 4: God exists and has inspired the writing of the Bible in such a way that it is accurate both in history and foretelling the future. Not trying to be funny but this is also a well known stance of millions of people. Why leave it out even if you might not agree? Option 4 works for me. I don’t have to change my opinions every decade when some “scholar” writes a book or the “church” shrugs. And so far, all God’s advice has improved my life and solved my problems. I’m not just believing, i am finding out everyday it’s true. I could never have seen it if i had let myself be peer pressured into thinking what most people think of the Bible. Think for yourself, examine it and \*\*then \*\*make a decision. Give the book a try. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/179 "2013-08-19T00:14:03Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#): > > You forgot option 4: God exists and has inspired the writing of the Bible in such a way that it is accurate both in history and foretelling the future. > > Not trying to be funny but this is also a well known stance of millions of people. Why leave it out even if you might not agree? > Option 4 works for me. I don’t have to change my opinions every decade when some “scholar” writes a book or the “church” shrugs. That’s option 1. … inerrant. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115/180 "2013-08-19T00:15:29Z")
You know who else isn’t God and can’t be God? Matt Damon. There, I said it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-is-not-god-and-cant-be-god/665115.md?page=10)