# Why Jesus wasn't a carpenter, and why the truth is more interesting **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2015, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197 "2015-04-09T11:17:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/1 "2015-04-09T11:17:12Z")
Mark is the original source for the story: > [@](#): > > When the Sabbath came, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, **"Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? 3"Is not this the carpenter,** the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?" And they took offense at Him. 4Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own household.”… Mark 6:3 Matthew gives it as this: > [@](#): > > He came to His hometown and began teaching them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, \*\*“Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers? 55"Is not this the carpenter’s son? \*\*Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56"And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?” Matt 13:55 Matthew is probably trying to restore as much of an Aramaic saying as he can, which Mark, or whoever wrote down some anecdotes in Greek that Mark used as a source, did not understand, and garbled. The phrase, which appears in the Talmud, and in some earlier sources, suggesting it was in fact in use in first century Judah, was “Only a carpenter, the son of a carpenter can explain this puzzle.” It is something rabbis say when they come across a point of law they cannot elucidate. “Carpenter” is a loose translation-- if such a job existed in modern times, it would probably be “engineer,” or “rocket scientist,” but as it is, it means someone who can design a structure from the ground up-- who can make something from nothing. When is interesting about this is that if it contains a vestige of an Aramaic phrase which was garbled, this suggests a real antiquity to the story. It doesn’t prove anything beyond one of the several composite characters who contributed to the Jesus legend was an autodidact who wowed his hometown, to the point that some people questioned whether he might be a fraud, and others thought he might have some miraculous powers. It doesn’t prove the resurrection, or the transfiguration, but it does seem to establish that there was someone in first century Judah with a following, and Paul didn’t just make the whole thing up. And it proves that stories were circulating, probably in written for in Aramaic, before the Jesus faith shifted to a Greek mystery religion. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/2 "2015-04-09T11:37:30Z")
Yes. I’ve read this many years ago in one of the books about the existence or not of Jesus. It’s not widely known, I suspect even among scholars. There are many such interesting tidbits in Biblical scholarship that aren’t widely publicized, like the Great Hiatus in the Gospel of Luke. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/3 "2015-04-09T18:05:36Z")
I guess they’ll have to recall all those “My boss is a Jewish carpenter” bumper stickers. On a slightly related note, I saw on another board someone had the username “My carpenter is a bossy Jew”. I found that quite funny. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/4 "2015-04-09T19:12:45Z")
While I’m on the topic of those wacky first century Jews, if anyone is interested, a first century superstition may be responsible for the idea that Jesus was dead for a full three days. The superstition was that a person wasn’t “fully” dead until he was three days dead. It was then that the spirit exited the body, and any hope of recovery was impossible. Prior to the three-day mark, someone might revive. This superstition probably arose because coma, shock and other deathlike altered states of consciousness were not well-understood. However, without modern medicine, anyone in an altered state would probably die in three days, so yes, someone three-days dead was deaddy-dead-dead. Probably everyone knew a story of someone who had “died” for a few hours and come back to life, so if Jesus was dead for a half a day, for example, there was nothing extra-special about him coming back to life. He had to come back to life after being _three days dead_, to demonstrate that he was really, really, beyond any doubt, DEAD. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/5 "2015-04-09T19:34:35Z")
Way I hear it, the actual word used for Jesus’ profession in the bible, _tekton_, is best translated “journeyman” or “artisan” or “craftsman”, not “engineer” or “architect”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/6 "2015-04-09T21:20:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Way I hear it, the actual word used for Jesus’ profession in the bible, _tekton_, is best translated “journeyman” or “artisan” or “craftsman”, not “engineer” or “architect”. > **[Tektōn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tekt%C5%8Dn)** > > The Ancient Greek noun tektōn (τέκτων) is a common term for an artisan/craftsman, in particular a carpenter, woodworker, or builder. The term is frequently contrasted with an ironworker, or smith (χαλκεύς) and stone-worker or mason (λιθολόγος, λαξευτής). > Tektōn (τέκτων) is derived from the Proto-Indo-European root \*tetḱ-, which means "to carve, to chisel, to mold." It is comparable to the Sanskrit takṣan, literally "wood-cutter". > "Architect" derives from ἀρχιτέκτων (arkhitéktōn, "master builder... ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/7 "2015-04-09T21:31:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > [Tektōn - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tekt%C5%8Dn) Yes, that says what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/8 "2015-04-09T21:35:18Z")
But was he actually dead for three days? He died on a Friday, yes? And with enough time before sundown that he could at least be carried to the tomb and the tomb could be closed. And he was resurrected before early morning Sunday, when the tomb was found empty. That may be 3 different periods of daylight, but that’s hardly 3 days later. There is, no doubt, some theological explanation for this. I’m no Biblical scholar, and this only occurred to me a couple of days ago, so I’m sure someone else has already thought of it and explained it, but it does make me wonder. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/9 "2015-04-09T21:47:53Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Way I hear it, the actual word used for Jesus’ profession in the bible, _tekton_, is best translated “journeyman” or “artisan” or “craftsman”, not “engineer” or “architect”. The _Greek_ word is tekton, but the Aramaic word was “naggar,” which usually gets translated as “craftsman”; it was a stand-by word for “the wisest man in the room,” which is why I compared it to the modern term “rocket scientist.” > [@Morgyn](#): > > But was he actually dead for three days? He died on a Friday, yes? And with enough time before sundown that he could at least be carried to the tomb and the tomb could be closed. And he was resurrected before early morning Sunday, when the tomb was found empty. That may be 3 different periods of daylight, but that’s hardly 3 days later. > > There is, no doubt, some theological explanation for this. I’m no Biblical scholar, and this only occurred to me a couple of days ago, so I’m sure someone else has already thought of it and explained it, but it does make me wonder. No, he wasn’t dead for three days, _but everyone says he was_. That was my point. Why make such a fuss over his having been dead for three days, when he wasn’t? It’s because “three days dead” means “absolutely and beyond all doubt, not coming back without a miracle, dead.” That’s how dead Jesus needed to be for resurrection theology. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/10 "2015-04-09T21:49:25Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > But was he actually dead for three days? He died on a Friday, yes? And with enough time before sundown that he could at least be carried to the tomb and the tomb could be closed. And he was resurrected before early morning Sunday, when the tomb was found empty. That may be 3 different periods of daylight, but that’s hardly 3 days later. > > There is, no doubt, some theological explanation for this. I’m no Biblical scholar, and this only occurred to me a couple of days ago, so I’m sure someone else has already thought of it and explained it, but it does make me wonder. Herbert W. Armstrong has a convincing case for Jesus being dead for 3 days to the minute. I think it’s called “The Resurrection Was Not on Sunday”. > **[The Resurrection was not on Sunday - Herbert W Armstrong](https://www.hwalibrary.com/cgi-bin/get/hwa.cgi?action=getbklet&InfoID=1319658718)** > > Was Jesus three days and three nights in the grave, as He said in Matthew 12:40? Can you figure three days and three nights between sunset "Good Friday" and sunrise Easter Sunday? It is commonly supposed today that Jesus was crucified on Friday, and... Apparently, there were 2 sabbaths that week. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/11 "2015-04-09T22:21:38Z")
The next thing you’re going to claim is that in the Old Testament Flood, it didn’t rain for 40 days and 40 nights, that the phrase just meant “a long time” or something. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/12 "2015-04-09T22:21:44Z")
I think the OP is reaching. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/13 "2015-04-10T00:04:08Z")
Didn’t that Aslan guy\* say that it means he was a daylaborer? Seems like the opposite of what you guys are saying \*Not the Lion ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/14 "2015-04-10T01:17:42Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > No, he wasn’t dead for three days, _but everyone says he was_. That was my point. Why make such a fuss over his having been dead for three days, when he wasn’t? It’s because “three days dead” means “absolutely and beyond all doubt, not coming back without a miracle, dead.” That’s how dead Jesus needed to be for resurrection theology. Yes, that was (according to secondary sources) the real litmus test for dead dead. Three days. There’s something in Jonah, too, about 3 days and three nights in the belly of the whale, just like the messiah was prophesied to be dead, or something. I’m too lazy to look it up right now. And really, anytime after sundown Friday night would have been sufficient, I think. His friends, aware that Jesus healed people on the sabbath, could have gone to the tomb, heard some groaning, and helped him. Or probably Saturday during the day (I don’t know Jerusalem’s geography well enough or the culture of the times to know how observed or unobserved one would have been at Golgotha on Saturday during daylight). Or anytime after sundown after Saturday would have been fair game - Sabbath’s over at sundown, not at dawn on Sunday. And these people wouldn’t have been liars, either- they would have believed he was resurrected. To me, the fact that the gospels awkwardly try to backfit the narrative onto the prophecies is decent evidence that this stuff happened. If I were making up the messiah’s resurrection out of whole cloth, he’d have been in the tomb three days and three nights, and risen on the Sabbath, rather than (how convenient) the dawn after the day when nobody’s supposed to do any work. I’d also not have let my boy enter Jerusalem on a young colt, but something more fitting. And not die humiliated by the crowds and one of the other crucifixees, but smiting everyone who dissed him. But then again, I’m a wasp. It’s easy to picture Mel Brooks shrugging “yeah, the king came in on an ass, was crucified with a wise-cracking thief, and wha’d’I said - 3 nights? I meant two nights and change. Whaddyagonna do? Let’s sneak some treif while the women ain’t here.” ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/15 "2015-04-10T01:31:23Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > The _Greek_ word is tekton, but the Aramaic word was “naggar,” which usually gets translated as “craftsman”; it was a stand-by word for “the wisest man in the room,” which is why I compared it to the modern term “rocket scientist.”. . . So Jesus was a _naggar_. O. . . kay. . . . ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/16 "2015-04-10T02:39:17Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Herbert W. Armstrong Fun guy, but not [the scat singer his son was.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8DUEAG5eO6c#t=59) ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/17 "2015-04-10T05:34:20Z")
OP, there is not necessarily any contradiction whatsoever between “a carpenter” and “the carpenter’s son.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/18 "2015-04-10T11:26:50Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > The _Greek_ word is tekton, but the Aramaic word was “naggar,” which usually gets translated as “craftsman”; it was a stand-by word for “the wisest man in the room,” which is why I compared it to the modern term “rocket scientist.” The Gospels weren’t written in Aramaic, they was written in Greek, and as such, if they _wanted_ to use the same sense as the _naggara_ from the Talmud, there’d be better words to use, I think. But I’m not a Koine scholar. But I do note that the Wiki article mentions linking _tekton_ and _naggara_ as speculation, and cites a clearer precedent for a link between _tekton_ and _kharash_, so there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/19 "2015-04-10T11:35:08Z")
Also, of course, that part of the Talmud dates to the 3rd century CE, so its relevance to what is meant in the Greek of the Gospels is kind of … limited. You can’t claim they were using some sort of metaphorical sense when they wrote the metaphor 200 years after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197/20 "2015-04-10T14:08:42Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > OP, there is not necessarily any contradiction whatsoever between “a carpenter” and “the carpenter’s son.” Right, but the point of the OP (I think) is that both those seem to add up to a poor translation from Aramaic - both gospels half-translated an idiom as literal. If that’s true, if it were an idiom in the original Aramaic (but as far as I know there’s no scholarly belief that ‘Q’ or any other lost source was Aramaic), then neither one was a carpenter. If someone today said, “Who’s that rocket scientist talking to the crowd?” in a context that wasn’t a space exploration lecture, one thing you can be pretty sure of, the guy’s not literally a rocket scientist. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-jesus-wasnt-a-carpenter-and-why-the-truth-is-more-interesting/717197.md?page=2)