Yes — actually, “Pliny the Younger.”
I believe it would be Ki (long i) - sar. The C was always a hard C.
In Spanish, Cesar seems to be pronounced Cheeser. Germany changed the term to start with a “K” to keep things simple.
There are at least three pronunciation schemes in common use for Latin: “Modern Latin” (what’s used in various technical fields such as law or medicine) is generally pronounced as if it were English (and so a ‘c’ can be either a ‘k’ or ‘s’ sound, depending on the word). “Ecclesiastical Latin” is how it’s pronounced in Roman Catholic church services, and is presumably what you learned as a choirboy: The most notable feature is that ‘c’ is pronounced like what we call ‘ch’. And “Classical Latin” is scholars’ best reconstruction of how actual Romans in the era of Caesar would have pronounced it: In that case, ‘c’ always has a ‘k’ sound, just like the Greek kappa.
As Chronos suggested, they did, sometimes. But I suspect that the reason this was not common is that you had enough names to give your first four children, without resorting to numbers.
Also to @Chronos: Is that true worldwide, or only in English speaking Countries? I was under the impression there were multiple modern pronunciations, with English Latin only being one of them.
It’s also the one I have the most trouble with. It’s weird to try and force English phonography onto obviously non-English words. I so often say words “wrong”—especially words with I as in blind.
The Latin you learned as a choirboy is different than the Latin spoken in the day of Caesar. I have no formal education in Latin either but I have listened to several linguistics podcasts which go into this in some detail. In Caesar’s day the “c” was pronounced as a “k”.
The rule you are remembering does not apply to all vowels, and also depends on the position in the word. In the anglicized pronunciation that you probably heard in church, the c is pronounced as a “sh” when it is not not the first letter of a word and is followed by i or e. If it the first letter of a word and followed by i or e, is it pronounced as "s. " Otherwise, including being following by vowels a, o, and u, it is pronounced as “k.”
I think I’ve heard that modern professionals use the same pronunciations even in non-English-speaking countries, but as an American, I’m not the best person to ask.
But remember, there are no soft C’s. So that would be KIH-keh-roh. So, since I would wager a guess you say “siss-ar-o”, you do anglicize his name.
Circe is also pronounced wrong.
When I brought up this issue on this Board many years ago, someone pointed out that Marcus Tullius Cicero was sometimes called “Tully”, something I hadn’t heard before.
It does seem odd that Mark Antony is the only Marcus whose name got turned into “Mark” (not to mentioned “Antonius” being rendered “Antony”), at least as far as I know – which is the reason I asked the question.
One of the reasons I love the Fitzgerald translation of the Odyssey is that he uses the english transliterations of the Greek names, which sort of forces you to think of the correct pronunciation. he renders Circe and Kirke (with diacritical marks, too).
My favorite of these is that Ajax becomes Aias. That’s probably not only closer to the correct pronunciation, it also prevents me from thinking of his as household cleanser (The cartoonist J.B. Handelsman once drew him as a canister of cleanser, and that has now cemented to association in my mind.)
Yeah, when I read it, I figured out pretty quickly that “Aias” was what I was used to seeing as “Ajax”, but it took a lot longer to realize what “the two Aiantes” meant.
I believe Secundus is the “younger” part, not a name. If there’s anyone named 1-4, again, I’m interested to see that, because I haven’t. And if anyone has any indication that the numbered names have to do with birth order, I want to see that too.
Update: there do appear to be a Tertius and Quartus in the book of Romans.
You would lose that wager, because I read the pronunciation guide when I studied (classical) Latin, so I never had trouble saying “Cicero” or “veni vidi vici”. BTW the book said ae should be pronounced as ai in aisle (which is logically phonetic if you try to say “a” immediately followed by “e”), so that is how I read that diphthong out loud.
OTOH I know [an American] whose given name is “Marcus”, so it is not universally turned into “Mark”.
It is a “cognomen” (like “Felix”, “Maximus”, “Caesar”, “Cicero”, “Primus”, etc.) but imo that definitely counts as a “name”
Yes, just like Henry VIII’s surname is the number 8
It’s very close, but not accurate. “ae” is pronounced very slightly different than “ai”. Both would be pronounced exactly as the two vowel sounds as that letter commonly makes in Romance Languages slurred together. (That is, something like the a in father, the e in bet and the i in machine.) The latter was not used regularly in Latin, but is used regularly in Japanese (which has Romanization based on Portuguese, the first Latin writing people to arrive), which also uses the former a decent bit, particularly the combining form “mae-” meaning “before”. They absolutely do pronounce them differently in Japanese because there’s linguistically no diphthongs at all (though in practice consecutive vowels can resemble them).
One can’t tell the difference as English speakers because they both sound exactly like the “long I” sound in English (well, outside of the Southern US, where the second half of the usual “long I” diphthong is dropped). Your pronunciation the “long I” being closer to “ae” or “ai” is effectively random. Sound out the vowels individually, slur them together, and listen, and you’ll probably not be able to divide them into separate phonemes despite knowing you’re pronouncing them differently because in English they are interchangeable.
The author is not claiming that “ae” sounds exactly like “ai” in Latin, nor is there any mention of older Latin vs classical Latin or anything of that nature. He is clearly merely suggesting to his target audience (young American kids) that “ae” should come out as something like the first sound in the English word “aisle”. Perhaps that is not the best description? Amusingly, he goes on with “au” as in “house” and “ei” as in “reign”, but next comes “eu” as Latin “e + u” !
“should be pronounced” - no
“should come out something like” - yes
You’re misreading what I said. My point was that no Roman name, aside from Mark Antony, had gotten turned into "Mark> I didn’t imply that the name “Marcus” was extinct. I wouldn’t have, in any case 0 I know people named “Marcus”.
So “aesthetics” should be pronounced “AI-sthetics”?
I think so (in this case it’s an “i” and not an “e”, cf what @glowacks explained about the two coming out the same in English), but that is Greek, not Latin, and it would be better to hear from someone who has properly (or at all) studied classical phonology. Also, pronunciation shifts over time.
I’m not sure that’s how that works. When Nicholas Breakspear was elected Pope, his name was Adrianus IV in Latin, just like all the other popes, including Ioannes Paulus II, Franciscus, Benedictus XVI, Anacletus, etc… Latin is the official language of the Church, and has been since its beginning. The popes’ official names are in Latin as a result- every church building in Rome typically has a little nameplate saying who built it, or seriously renovated it, and EVERY single one is in Latin.
They all end up translated into other languages however- John Paul II was Ioannes Paulus II officially, but he was Juan Pablo II in Spanish nations, Jan Pavel II in Poland, Giovanni Paolo II in Italy, Jean-Paul II in Francophone countries, etc…