# Why mental healthcare is not the solution to mass shootings/violent crime **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 15, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mental-healthcare-is-not-the-solution-to-mass-shootings-violent-crime/827812 "2019-01-15T18:51:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mental-healthcare-is-not-the-solution-to-mass-shootings-violent-crime/827812/41 "2019-01-18T19:19:30Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Heh. Don’t bother to read the “study,” as the “Crime Prevention Research Center” is merely a gun advocacy site: > > [https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/crime-prevention-research-center/](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/crime-prevention-research-center/) \*Ad hominem \*. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mental-healthcare-is-not-the-solution-to-mass-shootings-violent-crime/827812/42 "2019-01-28T20:46:51Z")
So bad data is okay if you say “ad hominem?” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mental-healthcare-is-not-the-solution-to-mass-shootings-violent-crime/827812/43 "2019-01-28T20:53:30Z")
_John Lott_, dude. By now we should \*all \*know that’s a synonym for “This is bullshit”. That is not an _ad hominem_. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mental-healthcare-is-not-the-solution-to-mass-shootings-violent-crime/827812/44 "2019-01-28T20:57:55Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > So bad data is okay if you say “ad hominem?” Nope, but you see- it’s not bad data. If you do attack the cite, you can say “That cite is biased, here is a unbiased cite I provided for contrast”- and that’s great. Just attacking that cite without a counter cite is a _ad hominem._ Note that you didnt have a counter cite. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mental-healthcare-is-not-the-solution-to-mass-shootings-violent-crime/827812/45 "2019-01-28T21:20:05Z")
It’s bad data. A textbook example of how to lie with statistics. Snopes explains why. > **[Does the United States Have a Lower Death Rate From Mass Shootings Than...](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/united-states-lower-death-shootings/)** > > A pro-gun rights economist used questionable statistical methods to create a misleading impression. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mental-healthcare-is-not-the-solution-to-mass-shootings-violent-crime/827812/46 "2019-01-28T21:29:59Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > It’s bad data. A textbook example of how to lie with statistics. Snopes explains why. > > [Does the United States Have a Lower Death Rate From Mass Shootings Than European Countries? | Snopes.com](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/united-states-lower-death-shootings/) Then where is your counter cite? And Snope rated his as a mixture. I mean the famous CDC “guns are dangerous to those who own them” studies were even worse, but people trot them out all the time. All the time here on this board, people trot out a small cherrypicked list of nations with low murder rates and high gun controls to “prove” that gun control works everywhere so the uSA needs to try it. Its’ the same thing. Within the scope of his period and the scope of his very reasonable definition, Lott is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mental-healthcare-is-not-the-solution-to-mass-shootings-violent-crime/827812/47 "2019-01-28T21:33:29Z")
I am not going down this tedious rabbit hole. The Snopes article speaks for itself, and is a counter-site. I’m confident curious dopers can read it themselves. From the article: > [@](#): > > If we compare the number of mass shooting deaths each year to the population of Norway each year, using the same method we did for the United States, we get an average annual death rate of 2 per million, more than 20 times higher than the rate in the United States (0.09 per million), even though we know there were zero mass shooting deaths in six out of those seven years, in Norway. > > If this strikes you as ridiculous, you’re on to something. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mental-healthcare-is-not-the-solution-to-mass-shootings-violent-crime/827812/48 "2019-01-28T23:14:55Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > I am not going down this tedious rabbit hole. The Snopes article speaks for itself, and is a counter-site. I’m confident curious dopers can read it themselves. > > From the article: Sure. But how about if we found a year with no mass shootings in America? Does that prove our rate is low? That one mass shooting did push the numbers high, but does that mean we shoudl ignore it? So you made the claim- “put up or shut up” as they say. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mental-healthcare-is-not-the-solution-to-mass-shootings-violent-crime/827812/49 "2019-01-29T00:57:34Z")
Read the fucking article. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mental-healthcare-is-not-the-solution-to-mass-shootings-violent-crime/827812/50 "2019-01-29T02:29:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Then where is your counter cite? > And Snope rated his as a mixture. > I mean the famous CDC “guns are dangerous to those who own them” studies were even worse, but people trot them out all the time. All the time here on this board, people trot out a small cherrypicked list of nations with low murder rates and high gun controls to “prove” that gun control works everywhere so the uSA needs to try it. Its’ the same thing. > > Within the scope of his period and the scope of his very reasonable definition, Lott is correct. The prefered terms are “developed nations” and “developed Western nations.” This form of bigotry/racism denies that the people of the other nations have agency and are capable of making moral decisions. What it amounts to is saying “We can’t compare ourselves to those bloodthirsty savages, we’re _civilized_.” It’s a form of racism and bigotry that gets a pass at this board and in liberal circles generally. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mental-healthcare-is-not-the-solution-to-mass-shootings-violent-crime/827812/51 "2019-01-29T02:45:15Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Read the fucking article. Since I quote part of it. But again, that’s not a counter cite. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mental-healthcare-is-not-the-solution-to-mass-shootings-violent-crime/827812/52 "2019-01-29T03:29:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Since I quote part of it. But again, that’s not a counter cite. OK, whatever you say, chief. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mental-healthcare-is-not-the-solution-to-mass-shootings-violent-crime/827812/53 "2019-01-29T15:46:15Z")
What does a three day non-voluntary commitment do for anyone? Doctors can judge a person’s mental state in three days? The only th8ing I can see is it sells drugs. Anyone in that system is given drugs, and a prescription of more drugs. Drug companies must love this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mental-healthcare-is-not-the-solution-to-mass-shootings-violent-crime/827812.md?page=2)