# Why Michael Jackson is a creep **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2005, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481 "2005-06-16T02:37:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/21 "2005-06-16T13:10:54Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Frankly I am stunned that 12 people think it’s ok to give alcohol to a minor. That alone should have sent a red flag to all of them. I’m not sure they were saying it was okay. I believe that charge was regarded the same as all the others: the jury was not convinced that MJ **did** give alcohol to a minor. See, the kid said he did, but he’s a liar, right? And his mom’s a nutcase. That charge apparently hinged on the flight attendant’s testimony, who was not able to definitively state that she’d seen the kid drink out of the can that had the Jesus Juice in it. So it didn’t happen. Nothing happened. Sure, they had video of a frightened, humiliated, tearful kid talking about a traumatic experience. But that means nothing, because what they didn’t have was video of MJ in the act of molesting the kid. It was the mother on trial, not MJ. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/22 "2005-06-16T13:22:15Z")
All I can say is that if anybody ever tried to give my kid “Jesus Juice”–I would raise hell. the whole thing sickens me–maybe the plaintiffs weren’t the Cleaver family–but could we look at the facts of the case? I know, I know, the prosecution didn’t prove the facts. I know the jury said that they discounted the celebrityhood of the trial, but I wonder… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/23 "2005-06-16T13:30:04Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I think the army of lawyers deployed around Jackson has been the only thing that has prevented this from already happening. The fiend! Employing lawyers to protect his interests! Everyone knows the American thing to do when threatened with legal action is to just bend over and spread your cheeks. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/24 "2005-06-16T13:34:27Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > The fiend! Employing lawyers to protect his interests! Everyone knows the American thing to do when threatened with legal action is to just bend over and spread your cheeks. You’ve just described MJ’s interests. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/25 "2005-06-16T13:36:49Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > You’ve just described MJ’s interests. Employing lawyers? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/26 "2005-06-16T13:47:34Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > The fiend! Employing lawyers to protect his interests! Everyone knows the American thing to do when threatened with legal action is to just bend over and spread your cheeks. Didn’t say that, no. But fear of those lawyers shouldn’t prevent the state of California fron doing it’s job when it comes to Michael Jackson’s children. ---
**Author:** ![Arwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/27 "2005-06-16T13:49:27Z")
Hello, lynch-mob. I’d like to point out that with people like you, who sentence someone to a crime of being considered a child-molester without actually being found guilty, who needs a decent justice system anyway? Trial by media. Trial by public opinion. Why not? Isn’t it just one really big jury anyway? We all agree that children are the bestest things in the world, but you can’t actually be nice to them, no, you better stay away from them, lest the lynch mob decides you are a child molester. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/28 "2005-06-16T14:06:53Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Didn’t say that, no. But fear of those lawyers shouldn’t prevent the state of California fron doing it’s job when it comes to Michael Jackson’s children. So if MJ’s lawyers prevail, it must be because the state is afraid, not because of the merits of their arguments? What faith you have in our legal system! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/29 "2005-06-16T14:10:08Z")
If someone saying that they are desperate to be around children is enough for a conviction, there are a few infertility clinics that should be investigated. I’ve heard too many wannabe parents say it, and who seem to base their entire self-worth on their ability to conceive. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/30 "2005-06-16T14:12:35Z")
> [@Arwin](#): > > Hello, lynch-mob. I’d like to point out that with people like you, who sentence someone to a crime of being considered a child-molester without actually being found guilty, who needs a decent justice system anyway? Trial by media. Trial by public opinion. Why not? Isn’t it just one really big jury anyway? > > We all agree that children are the bestest things in the world, but you can’t actually be nice to them, no, you better stay away from them, lest the lynch mob decides you are a child molester. :rolleyes: This isn’t just about molestation. We’re talking about his obvious obsession with children and childhood. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/31 "2005-06-16T14:14:03Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > All I can say is that if anybody ever tried to give my kid “Jesus Juice”–I would raise hell. > > the whole thing sickens me–maybe the plaintiffs weren’t the Cleaver family–but could we look at the facts of the case? > > I know, I know, the prosecution didn’t prove the facts. > > I know the jury said that they discounted the celebrityhood of the trial, but I wonder… check it out again - my recollection was that the alcohol related charge was something to the effect of : “providing alcohol to a minor w/intent to molest” ie, not simply giving booze to the kid (Which he seemed to have done) but doing so w/the intent to faciliate the physical abuse. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/32 "2005-06-16T14:28:59Z")
> [@Arwin](#): > > Hello, lynch-mob. I’d like to point out that with people like you, who sentence someone to a crime of being considered a child-molester without actually being found guilty, who needs a decent justice system anyway? Trial by media. Trial by public opinion. Why not? Isn’t it just one really big jury anyway? > > We all agree that children are the bestest things in the world, but you can’t actually be nice to them, no, you better stay away from them, lest the lynch mob decides you are a child molester. :rolleyes: What the hell? Are you a parent? Are you seriously saying that you find nothing creepy about MJ and his obsession with boys? Giving them alcohol, sleeping with them? These are admitted ( and what exactly is Jesus Juice?) If expressing reservations about a 40-something male’s predilection for sleeping with 11 year old males in a locked room with an alarm systen is being a lynch mob. then hand me a rope. I sincerely hope that he has been tried by public opinion and loses his wealth. Without it, he cannot construct the very environment that allows him to continue this behavior. All along I have advocated for mental health care for MJ–and I still think he needs and deserves it. I would rather err on the side of caution re the boys at this point. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/33 "2005-06-16T14:29:19Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > because despite the respect that I give our legal system–it really effs up when it comes to kids, it sucks. > > the letter of the law is very often NOT in the best interest of the child/children. > > Frankly I am stunned that 12 people think it’s ok to give alcohol to a minor. That alone should have sent a red flag to all of them. > Not to hijack, but the courts not acting in the best interest of the child is tragically displayed in the Baby Richard case. No cite, but it all happened about 10+ years ago. He was taken from his adoptive parents (the only ones he had ever known) just so a man could prove a point. Otto, his “father” gave up custody of Baby Richard about 2 years later, IMS. > > Jacko and custody cases are not the same thing, of course. But my point is that while it may have been MJ who was on trial here–it is the boys who will serve the sentence–and theirs may be for life. > > to me, that is too high a risk to take. What if he truly was diddling with pre-pubescent boys? Is he creating new pedophiles as he goes? > > Who can say? Again, I wish we had the Scottish “not proven” verdict. > > I hope MJ loses all his money, frankly, and gets the mental health care that he needs. He, to me, is the prime example of how money can corrupt and entitle a person. Eleanor, I know where you’re coming from. Really I do. In fact, as a molested child, you’d think I would be on your side. Unfortunately, the side of the law is more important in this instance. We can’t do anything about someone who wasn’t even proven to have “done” anything with a child. They couldn’t prove that he administered alcohol to him, they most definitely couldn’t have proven that he gave the kid fellatio, there was no proven kidnapping conspiracy. Nothing. The only thing they can do to him is begin supervising his own children just to monitor his behavior with the kids, and teachers, doctors, Etc the same. While we don’t have the “Scottish not proven” verdict, we do have a rabid media and a public that is prepared to damn any poetntial prepetrator of a crime such as this. We don’t need “not proven”, we have groups who will vocally damn the man for life. Trust me, only his minion and obsessed fans think he’s truly not guilty. I think the dude’s a creep. I think he’s fucking weird. I’ve voiced my opinion of what I think really takes place at MJ’s house, and I personally don’t think he’s a molester per se. If he is, the microscope they have shoved up his ass will turn something up. Hopefully next time, the prosecution doesn’t present some wack, bullshit unproveable case and they nail him-or, he’s truly not a perverted molester(as I personally believe), and it’s never proven. Which would of course make all of this hoopla for nothing, and the condemnations being issued truly poinless. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Arwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/34 "2005-06-16T14:34:49Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > This isn’t just about molestation. We’re talking about his obvious obsession with children and childhood. Oh. I thought we were talking about an obvious obsession with wealthy public figures. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/35 "2005-06-16T14:39:02Z")
> [@wring](#): > > check it out again - my recollection was that the alcohol related charge was something to the effect of : “providing alcohol to a minor w/intent to molest” ie, not simply giving booze to the kid (Which he seemed to have done) but doing so w/the intent to faciliate the physical abuse. The jury had the option of find him guilty of either charge. They found there was not enough evidence to convict him of even the simple ‘providing’ charge. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/36 "2005-06-16T14:42:40Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > Eleanor, > > I know where you’re coming from. Really I do. In fact, as a molested child, you’d think I would be on your side. Unfortunately, the side of the law is more important in this instance. We can’t do anything about someone who wasn’t even proven to have “done” anything with a child. > While we don’t have the “Scottish not proven” verdict, we do have a rabid media and a public that is prepared to damn any poetntial prepetrator of a crime such as this. We don’t need “not proven”, we have groups who will vocally damn the man for life. Trust me, only his minion and obsessed fans think he’s truly not guilty. > > Sam But, this is where we differ. I think that in this particular case, public opinion may be correct–but it is not something we should rely on. Not trusting PO is one reason FOR our legal system–everyone gets their day in court to present their “side”. It just is so awful when the ones who have NO voice (kids) get shafted again and again by the court. We have all heard stories about the abusive parent getting custody or regaining custody of a helpless child. This is a similiar case–he walks free to do what? His bizarre behavior is enough to convict this mom–but apparently there are parents out there who want their kids to be close to the aura (yuck) of celebrity. It’s the KIDS who get shafted, again. Is he gonna dangle one of them off a balcony? He is not stable and should not be allowed access to children, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/37 "2005-06-16T14:50:23Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > It just is so awful when the ones who have NO voice (kids) get shafted again and again by the court. But you are falling into the public opinin trap again, by presuming the so-called victim was telling the truth. The jury did not find him to be credible enough to base a conviction on. You apparently don’t agree with the jury, and prefer to stick with public opinion. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/38 "2005-06-16T14:56:02Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > It just is so awful when the ones who have NO voice (kids) get shafted again and again by the court. We have all heard stories about the abusive parent getting custody or regaining custody of a helpless child. How about the kids who are put into strange positions by their parents and then told to lie to the world in the hopes of a payday? I really think the person who should be looked at more carefully and possibly punished is the mom of this young boy. Not only did she put her kid in the situation, but it appears that she hatched a plan to scam MJ-at least that’s what the jury decided. I know you think he’s unstable(as does most anyone who’s ever seen the weirdo on TV), but the law doesn’t provide for pre-emptively taking a person’s children from them in the absence of any kind of evidence. If there comes a time when some proof of abuse of his children surfaces, I promise you that no high $$ mouthpiece can save MJ from a family court judge. Sam ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/39 "2005-06-16T14:58:17Z")
that’s **convince this mom** …oy. NO-I am not going by the victim here. I am going by the evidence of the alarm system and by the admission by MJ that he sleeps with pre-pubescent boys. I understand that there was not enough evidence to convict him of molestation–I am not sure if he did all that he was accused of. I am saying that MJ has displayed abberrant behavior often enough in the past to give any parent pause. Any rational thinking adult pause, for that matter. I am frustrated because the Law seems very narrow here and doesn’t allow for other issues–he provided alcohol to a minor–if I do that-I’m going to jail, if I’m caught, of course. He has done very dubious things–I hope the state does watch his kids like a hawk. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481/40 "2005-06-16T15:07:06Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > he provided alcohol to a minor You keep repeating this as if it is a matter of record, when in fact, there is no evidence proving he provided alcohol to a minor. The jury specifically exonerated him of this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-michael-jackson-is-a-creep/308481.md?page=3)