# Why might a supermarket remove the safety belts from carts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 25, 2010, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954 "2010-09-25T01:42:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wellanuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@wellanuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wellanuff)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/1 "2010-09-25T01:42:54Z")
I recently noticed that one of the supermarkets I go to has removed all of the safety belts from the basket seats in their shopping carts. My question is, what might be possible reasons why they did that? Also, does anyone know if having such belts on shopping carts is a requirement in Illinois? I would imagine it is not, but who knows? This store is part of a small specialty chain. I say small, because I think they only have thirty stores or so in the U.S., but the store I visit is as large as a typical large supermarket that belongs to one of the major chains, so it is not a penny ante operation. Also, the belts were present before and then were removed, so I do not think it is a cost saving measure. My cynical side wonders if removing the belts is a backhanded way of avoiding liability if a child falls or gets hurt: the carts have clear warnings on them that children must be buckled in for safety if they are sitting in the basket, and if there are no belts, there can be no denying that the parents did not buckle the child in with a safety belt. Therefore, the parents were careless about their child’s safety. (Obviously, I am not a lawyer, so I know nothing about whether that would actually be an effective tack for the store to take in a liability suit.) I would hope that this store is not that evil and twisted, however. Also, if that actually was an effective approach for a corporation to take in order to avoid liability, I would think that the practice of removing the safety belts would be more widespread. So if anyone can help my noncynical side to understand the possible legitimate reasons why the store might remove the safety belts, please do so. I have a small child, so the belts are useful to me, because they keep my daughter from falling out and splitting her head open. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/2 "2010-09-25T01:57:45Z")
> [@wellanuff](#): > > So if anyone can help my noncynical side to understand the possible legitimate reasons why the store might remove the safety belts, please do so. I imagine they were sued by someone who was injured by the safety belts. Perhaps more than one someone. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/3 "2010-09-25T02:06:18Z")
Crazy idea, but what about walking up to the store manager and asking him or her? ---
**Author:** ![wellanuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@wellanuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wellanuff)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/4 "2010-09-25T02:26:48Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Crazy idea, but what about walking up to the store manager and asking him or her? That’s so crazy it just might have worked, except that I didn’t do it. I did send an e-mail to their corporate office inquiring about the matter; they might give me a straightforward answer or they just might give me a load of pablum. My intention asking here was to get the input of others who might have some insight about the actual reasoning of a corporation instead of what their customer relations department (or store manager) might say for public consumption. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/5 "2010-09-25T02:43:54Z")
WAGs: The safety belts get wet when carts are left out in the rain, and stay wet longer than other cart parts, leading to complaints from customers about water stains on leather bags/etc. The safety belts tended to get stuck in the carts when carts were pushed together, leading to difficulty in separating carts, and damage to the belts when the carts were pulled apart. The buckles were of a poor-quality plastic and broke. The belts weren’t easily adjustable, leading to problems/liability concerns. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/6 "2010-09-25T02:45:57Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > WAGs: > > The safety belts tended to get stuck in the carts when carts were pushed together, leading to difficulty in separating carts, and damage to the belts when the carts were pulled apart. That’s the first thing that occurred to me. The fact that they get stuck all the friggin’ time is probably also the reason why the clasps are usually broken. I think those belts are pointless anyway. Kids are either small enough to wiggle out of them, or they are old enough to unclasp them. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/7 "2010-09-25T04:10:13Z")
I have never heard of safety belts on shopping carts. Seems like an odd thing to me. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/8 "2010-09-25T05:44:14Z")
> [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](#): > > I have never heard of safety belts on shopping carts. Seems like an odd thing to me. Not a great picture, but this gets the idea across: [http://www.zrecommends.com/images/uploads/zrecommends/cache/225555518\_6479d7b7b9-480x360.jpg](http://www.zrecommends.com/images/uploads/zrecommends/cache/225555518_6479d7b7b9-480x360.jpg) They tend to be simple straps, which connect with a plastic closure. As noted by others, the straps (and the closures) tend to get stuck in between the carts when the carts are “stacked” together. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/9 "2010-09-25T06:01:27Z")
Plus they get absolutely filthy. I’m no germaphobe but I don’t let those nasty things touch my kids. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/10 "2010-09-25T14:38:03Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Plus they get absolutely filthy. I’m no germaphobe but I don’t let those nasty things touch my kids. Exactly. The belts get exposed to drool, urine, feces, and vomit. And they don’t clean up easily the way the rest of the (metal and plastic) cart does. They’re a strangulation risk, too. Said risk may well outweigh the benefits of belting the kid in. And there’s no good evidence they actually are of benefit in their belting function either. We lack data showing they actually do prevent harm. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/11 "2010-09-25T14:44:57Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > … > Exactly. The belts get exposed to drool, urine, feces, and vomit. And they don’t clean up easily the way the rest of the (metal and plastic) cart does… Now I’m going to have to rethink placing my bread and eggs in that little seat area. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/12 "2010-09-25T14:45:38Z")
Strangulation was my first thought, as well. But that’s based on being a mom, not from actually knowing the answer. Man, we’re just mucking up GQ today, huh? The only way to get a factual answer to this one, of course, is to ask the guy who did it…or, more likely, told his employee to do it. ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/13 "2010-09-25T14:56:49Z")
I agree with the others who say that the belts don’t work very well, get dirty and worn far faster than the rest of the cart, stay wet too long, get trapped between carts, and probably have throttled more than one child. These are all good reasons to cut them off the carts. I don’t see the logic behind the store removing the belts as a means to avoid liability expressly by making it impossible to do what they themselves recommend in their cart signage. If they admit that the seats are unsafe without belts, and they remove the belts, how are they not responsible for subsequent injuries? To avoid liability, they should close up the leg holes and put on signs that say ‘not a child seat.’ ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/14 "2010-09-25T17:14:25Z")
Over here, there are no belts for the child seats, either. There are warnings for the parents not to leave the child alone in the seat (which could lead to overbalancing and falling/ dropping out), and in some stores, max. weight of the child is given as 5 kg. Generally, it seems to be assumed a measure of common sense regarding size, age and behaviour of a child put into the seat to be exercised by the parent, not the store, so if an accident happens the parent is at fault. Also, the shape of the seat allows normal (not hyper-active, not unsupervised, not unusually small or big) children to stay inside, so I don’t see any safety benefits that a belt would bring. You’re not driving that cart with 30mph usually, are you? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/15 "2010-09-25T17:17:16Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > and in some stores, max. weight of the child is given as 5 kg. Woah, really? That’s smaller than a 6 month old! Y’all got some rickety carts in your neck o’ the woods. We have behemoth, SUV inspired shopping carts. While the max weight isn’t listed, I’ll still stick my 18 kg (39 pound) 5 year old in there if she’s being fractious. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/16 "2010-09-25T17:24:37Z")
We may be talking about two different things. The type of cart that **kenobi 65** [linked to]( [http://www.zrecommends.com/images/uploads/zrecommends/cache/225555518\_6479d7b7b9-480x360.jpg](http://www.zrecommends.com/images/uploads/zrecommends/cache/225555518_6479d7b7b9-480x360.jpg) ) seems suitable for older children like your 18kg five-year-old. But some stores have carts with seats designed for infants, like the ones mentioned by **constanze**. I’m trying but failing to find a picture of the latter, although I’ve seen them at Tesco in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/17 "2010-09-25T17:28:58Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > We may be talking about two different things. The type of cart that **kenobi 65** [linked to]( > > [http://www.zrecommends.com/images/uploads/zrecommends/cache/225555518\_6479d7b7b9-480x360.jpg](http://www.zrecommends.com/images/uploads/zrecommends/cache/225555518_6479d7b7b9-480x360.jpg) > > ) seems suitable for older children like your 18kg five-year-old. But some stores have carts with seats designed for infants, like the ones mentioned by **constanze**. I’m trying but failing to find a picture of the latter, although I’ve seen them at Tesco in the UK. Oh, yes, you’re probably right. They have[a simplified car seat permanently attached onto the front](http://premiercarts.com/images/New/SS_SafeSeatPlus.JPG), yes? Right, my 5 year old would not safely fit in one of those. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/18 "2010-09-25T20:02:28Z")
It’s not like the belts are important anyway. No place had them when I was a kid, and _most_ of us survived. 😉 When did they start adding them, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/19 "2010-09-25T21:23:29Z")
The typical carts I was thinking off have the little folding-out seat in the first linked picture. These have no weight listed, and not all have the warnings. The weight max. I have seen in one store - can’t remember which one - and I think that one had the seat shaped more like the baby cradle in the second image. So aside from the disadvantages - difficult to clean, easy to get stuck - the other Dopers mentioned, what are the advantages of having the belts? Not all parents use them anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DanCorleone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@DanCorleone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanCorleone)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954/20 "2010-09-25T21:58:31Z")
I always considered those things to be restraining devices with no safety advantage. At least that’s how I used them… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-might-a-supermarket-remove-the-safety-belts-from-carts/554954.md?page=2)