# Why minor keys so sad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2001, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923 "2001-02-02T21:47:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/1 "2001-02-02T21:47:59Z")
And not just D Minor, the saddest of all keys. ---
**Author:** ![kpm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c57346/32.png) [@kpm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kpm)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/2 "2001-02-02T22:32:13Z")
Don’t know why they are sad. But I heard that a classical radio station once told people not to play anything in a minor key during fundraising - they thought it would depress people and lead to lower donations. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/3 "2001-02-02T22:42:06Z")
WAG I think it will have something to do with the way the brain interprets sound. As a side issue, it is known that sounds in nature tend to generate odd numbered harmonics and it is known that amplifiers using valves sound ‘warmer’ than transistors. Valves produce some distortion but it is always in odd harmonics but transistors produce even harmonics.(IIRC odd harmonics can be combined to produce triangle waves and even harmonics combine to produce squarewaves) In terms of measurement valve amps do not perform as well as good quality transistor amps but they sound better. One use of distortion which demonstrates this very well is in the electric guitar. The electric guitar when played within the limits of the electronic amplifying equipment it is a fairly insipid instrument but when you crank everything up and overdrive it all it sounds much more interesting. Turns out that valve amp distortion sounds better to the human ear and this has been put down to it producing a more natural distortion, as in harmonics found in nature, whereas transistors sound coarser, more hard edged and colder. This is so well recognised that you can buy yourself a guitar pre-amp that uses valves just to generate this effect. This is off the point somewhat but it does show that there is far more to musical processing within the brain than is obvious from the spec sheets that amp manufacturers put out. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2001, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/4 "2001-02-04T05:06:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by casdave \* > \*\*In terms of measurement valve amps do not perform as well as good quality transistor amps but they sound better. > One use of distortion which demonstrates this very well is in the electric guitar. \*\* Which is a whole different Great Debate. But at the upper end, as on The Kinks’ “You Really Got Me,” high point of tube amp art in which the odd characteristics of valves cranked to eleven are used to further the artist’s creativity, when they start to ringing it’s a sound you just can’t reproduce with solid state equipment. Am I culturally biased? Are minor keys only “sad” in some cultures, such as the West, or is it universal? ---
**Author:** ![Tedster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@Tedster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tedster)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2001, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/5 "2001-02-04T05:59:43Z")
Heck, I read somewhere that certain key combinations were _illegal_ way back when, the middle ages I suppose. Black Sabbath, of course had no qualms about playing that particular set of notes. I think it’s off of their “paranoid” lp, right before “War Pigs”; it’s a sort of three note dirge that does sort of raise the hair on the back of your neck. ---
**Author:** ![ponzicar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@ponzicar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ponzicar)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/7 "2013-05-07T08:29:54Z")
Let’s not assume that just because they sound sad to our ears, that they are sad for everyone. Have there been any studies of how people from different cultures and/or unfamiliar with western music interpret them? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/8 "2013-05-07T09:23:15Z")
> [@ponzicar](#): > > Let’s not assume that just because they sound sad to our ears, that they are sad for everyone. Have there been any studies of how people from different cultures and/or unfamiliar with western music interpret them? IIRC, musicologist Gerard Kubik found that, in much of West Africa, the minor third interval is “female” and the major third interval is “male.” Like sex and love, the preference is to combine the two – to hit the sweet spot right between them. Thus…the blues! This is surely an oversimplification, but I think that was the gist of it. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/9 "2013-05-07T13:21:23Z")
Do zombies feel sad when they listen to music in minor keys? 😉 There are actually quite a few upbeat pop/rock songs in minor keys. And some sad music in major keys. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/10 "2013-05-07T13:54:44Z")
> [@Tedster](#): > > Heck, I read somewhere that certain key combinations were _illegal_ way back when, the middle ages I suppose. Black Sabbath, of course had no qualms about playing that particular set of notes. > > I think it’s off of their “paranoid” lp, right before “War Pigs”; it’s a sort of three note dirge that does sort of raise the hair on the back of your neck. The tritone wasn’t illegal, but in certain temperaments in sounded really disonant and disonance wasn’t really big in the Midlle Ages. The stories about excommunications are false. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/11 "2013-05-07T14:36:40Z")
I wrote a really sad flute melody once in C major. IMHO the happiness or sadness of the tune has more to do with the intervals and rhythms you use than the key. A minor key does give you more opportunities to use more dissonant intervals around the tonic, though. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/12 "2013-05-07T15:01:41Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Valves produce some distortion but it is always in odd harmonics but transistors produce even harmonics.(IIRC odd harmonics can be combined to produce triangle waves and even harmonics combine to produce squarewaves) You got that backward. It is the transistors that tend to produce odd harmonics, and it is the odd harmonics that sound more dissonant. As to why minor keys sound sad, part if it may be training, as people who score movies and such tend to use them that way. And not everyone experiences this. Me for example…could never “feel” what people were talking about with emotional reactions to different keys or intervals. Same deal with “warm” and “cool” colors: I totally don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/13 "2013-05-07T16:50:39Z")
_God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlefolk_ sounds sad? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/14 "2013-05-07T20:30:20Z")
> [@moriah](#): > > _God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlefolk_ sounds sad? Well, it does, kind of. It’s always sounded melancholy to me, despite the lyrics. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/15 "2013-05-07T21:02:24Z")
Lots of hymns are in minor keys with a major home chord on the final measure. I forget the proper term, but I always wanted to call that the resurrected cadence. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/16 "2013-05-07T21:09:15Z")
Did the theme music the series The Incredible hulk use minor keys (I know didly about music)? Cause, man for such a short series of notes it was pretty depressing. ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/17 "2013-05-07T21:25:50Z")
This paper suggests that the association is learned behavior: > **[The development of emotional responses to music in young children -...](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02856522)** > > Children aged 3 to 4 and 7 to 8 years listened to eight tunes which were either in the major or minor mode and either unaccompanied melody or harmonized. For each tune children selected one of two schematic faces chosen to depict happy or sad facial... > [@](#): > > Abstract > Children aged 3 to 4 and 7 to 8 years listened to eight tunes which were either in the major or minor mode and either unaccompanied melody or harmonized. For each tune children selected one of two schematic faces chosen to depict happy or sad facial expressions. Children 7 to 8 years old showed a significant major-happy and minor-sad connotation, which was also shown by adults. However 3 to 4 year-olds did not show any such significant association between musical mode and emotional response. Harmonic accompaniment significantly increased the frequency of happy responses. The results support the idea of a learned association between mode and emotional response. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/18 "2013-05-07T21:59:50Z")
Moving this zombie to Cafe Society since it’s about music. **samclem** , moderator ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/19 "2013-05-08T00:38:47Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Lots of hymns are in minor keys with a major home chord on the final measure. I forget the proper term, but I always wanted to call that the resurrected cadence. It’s a Picardy Third. And I hate it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2013, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/20 "2013-05-08T02:54:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **friedo** : > > IMHO the happiness or sadness of the tune has more to do with the intervals and rhythms you use than the key. Case in point: Taps is in major key. Play it fast, and it sounds like a fanfare. Play it slowly (as it normally is), and it’s… Well, not necessarily “unhappy”, but at least somber. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923/21 "2013-05-08T22:07:06Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > It’s a Picardy Third. > > And I hate it. There’s actually a piano piece by Mendelssohn which does the reverse: it’s in major, with a minor final chord. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-minor-keys-so-sad/52923.md?page=2)