# Why mommy is a Democrat. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 7, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722 "2006-04-07T14:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/61 "2006-04-07T19:13:46Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > But isn’t ANY religious training indoctrination? By telling your children they have to attend church with you, you’re making a special effort to change and mold their minds. Possibly. It depends on the preacher, really. I’ve only been to a church service twice (both were CoE) but the priest’s sermons were about what was in the bible, what’s going on in the world, what this means/how we should act, etc. Now, that priest has his own view of reality, and he spoke from that view - as though it were true. That’s fine, and while it may be considered “passive” indoctrination (and so not entirely good) I wouldn’t say it was all that bad. The children in the church (and adults, of course) were exposed to the priest’s viewpoint more than they would if they hadn’t gone to church, that’s all. This is perfectly in line with christian “duty” (as Mr. Moto put it) to raise your children in that faith. The problem starts when a parent (or priest) decides that their view of reality is not enough to get their children to believe; that the way they see the world, even though they themselves are certain of the influence of God, may not be enough evidence for the child. So (as in the example of the OP’s book) they “twist” their version of reality; they misrepresent and lie to the child to “bridge the gap” between the evidence they see and the evidence needed to convince the child. It’s not just wrong in my beliefs, as an agnostic, it is also for them, religious parents, in theirs. I would call this “active indoctrination” - it’s the difference between “I want my child to be raised in my faith, here’s the evidence for and against that faith, think on it yourself, I hope you choose rightly” and “I want my child to be raised in my faith, here’s all the good points about our faith, everyone else is evil, listen to me and your preacher only, you damn sure will choose rightly”. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/62 "2006-04-07T19:15:44Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > Possibly. It depends on the preacher, really. I’ve only been to a church service twice (both were CoE) but the priest’s sermons were about what was in the bible, what’s going on in the world, what this means/how we should act, etc. Now, that priest has his own view of reality, and he spoke from that view - as though it were true. That’s fine, and while it may be considered “passive” indoctrination (and so not entirely good) I wouldn’t say it was all that bad. The children in the church (and adults, of course) were exposed to the priest’s viewpoint more than they would if they hadn’t gone to church, that’s all. This is perfectly in line with christian “duty” (as Mr. Moto put it) to raise your children in that faith. > > The problem starts when a parent (or priest) decides that their view of reality is not enough to get their children to believe; that the way they see the world, even though they themselves are certain of the influence of God, may not be enough evidence for the child. So (as in the example of the OP’s book) they “twist” their version of reality; they misrepresent and lie to the child to “bridge the gap” between the evidence they see and the evidence needed to convince the child. It’s not just wrong in my beliefs, as an agnostic, it is also for them, religious parents, in theirs. I would call this “active indoctrination” - it’s the difference between “I want my child to be raised in my faith, here’s the evidence for and against that faith, think on it yourself, I hope you choose rightly” and “I want my child to be raised in my faith, here’s all the good points about our faith, everyone else is evil, listen to me and your preacher only, you damn sure will choose rightly”. Got it. Thanks for clarifying. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/63 "2006-04-07T19:16:46Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > Whoosh me if needed, but tell me are you serious? Absolutely. You don’t think part of the reason that the right has worked so hard to control the media and dominate talk radio and cable news is to expose the next generation of voters to their philosophy? How is that different than this book? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/64 "2006-04-07T19:18:26Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > Is anyone surprised that the Democrat book is, on the face of it, a warm positive telling of Democrat principles, with passive aggressive swipes at republicans in the background, while the republican book is a full on attack, explaining why liberals are scary? ‘Cause we all know that Democrats’ books are always “warm positive tellings of Democrat principles,” like Al Franken’s _Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot,_ for example. Don’t try to pretend there’s a difference between the parties on this. Hardliners on both sides try to get ahead by ridicule, FUD, character assassination, and generally misrepresenting what the other party is about. That’s what makes this kind of indoctrination so insidious. I explained party politics to my kids by showing them where we agreed and disagreed with what the various parties were professing. I showed them why my wife and I support candidates as individuals and ballot propositions on their own merit instead of just looking at which party proposed them. I’ll never understand blind loyalty to a party. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/65 "2006-04-07T19:19:08Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Absolutely. You don’t think part of the reason that the right has worked so hard to control the media and dominate talk radio and cable news is to expose the next generation of voters to their philosophy? How is that different than this book? It is not different, it is all bad! Jim ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/66 "2006-04-07T19:47:15Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I was speaking of the specific duty to raise your children within your faith. I would say there’s a huge difference between raising your children within one’s faith and religious indoctrination. The former serves to give the children a solid starting point from which to begin their own journeys of faith (or lack thereof); the latter is aimed at making sure that any such journey doesn’t really go anywhere different. Imagine a 9 year old asking his father about other religions: “Daddy, there are Jews and Moslems and Buddhists and stuff, and they believe different things from us - they don’t even believe Jesus is God. Are they wrong?” So what’s the answer? “Of course they’re wrong, son. Jesus Christ said, ‘I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man comes to the Father but through me.’ We need to spread the Gospel to those people so they can stop following lies.” Or: “We believe Jesus is God. And I believe in Him with all my heart. But there’s no way of proving who’s right. And someday when you are growing up, you won’t always believe that Mommy and Daddy are right about everything. Even maybe about God. And you will have to decide for yourself whether you believe in Jesus on your own, because it’s what you truly believe, rather than believing it because Mommy and Daddy believe it. That’s surely a ways off yet, but someday you will make that choice on your own.” You get the idea. Even though I’m a considerable ways from the beliefs of contemporary Southern Baptists, I’ve always respected their commitment to adult baptism, precisely because almost all of us do go through those stages, if we have a healthy development - first of believing that everything Mommy and Daddy tell us is the Gospel truth, then of questioning most of what they’ve told us, and ultimately coming to see that they were right about some things and wrong about others. Very few people, I think, are capable of making a true faith commitment before getting a decent way into that second stage. Unfortunately, my respect for Baptists on this score had a meltdown when I saw a six year old girl make a commitment to Christ at my wife’s parents’ church. I knew it wasn’t unusual for ten year olds to do so, and I wasn’t really keen on that, but _six??_ I swear, they’re working their way back towards infant baptism, or at least baptisms as soon as they can pronounce the words, “I accept Jesus as my personal savior.” I’d have loved to kick the butt of that preacher who let her do that. (And it wasn’t even a response to an altar call that could have caught the preacher by surprise; she’d already made her ‘commitment’ earlier that weekend, and this was just the public announcement. Grrrr. Argh.) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/67 "2006-04-07T19:52:50Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > ‘Cause we all know that Democrats’ books are always “warm positive tellings of Democrat principles,” like Al Franken’s _Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot,_ for example. > > Don’t try to pretend there’s a difference between the parties on this. Hardliners on both sides try to get ahead by ridicule, FUD, character assassination, and generally misrepresenting what the other party is about. So which is Al Franken’s _Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot_? I admit it’s been a decade since I read it, but it seemed pretty factual at the time. Might’ve been some ridicule, though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/68 "2006-04-07T19:58:24Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > You can’t tell me that Ted Kennedy hiding under your bed is not a terrifying thought. Hell, if he has a keg down there with him, I’m joining him. That’s a Democratic household, right? Well, I don’t see the _other_ mommy. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/69 "2006-04-07T19:59:07Z")
The book linked in the OP seems like an intentional parody of Dems to me. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/70 "2006-04-07T22:43:51Z")
Thank you for the thoughtful answer, **Revenant Threshold**. I’m of the opinion that parents do indoctrinate their children, as **Mr. Moto** points out, as much by actions as by words and books. I hardly see how it can be otherwise. If one holds certain beliefs, whether political or religious, it must be because one holds that those beliefs are right and good. One of course would want to inculcate those beliefs in ones children. Not only by explicitly teaching them those beliefs but in such ways as **Hentor** ’s comment that children will hear conversations on current events, and learn from the attitudes expressed therein. I don’t think this is bad, nor cowardly. One _should_ teach children what one believes is right. Obviously, “the others” shouldn’t be demonized, and if a child reaches the age of reason and chooses a different direction (as I did–until my mid-teens, I was a devout conservative and a devout Catholic), the child shouldn’t be demonized either. The desire of a parent to raise a child to believe the same as they do is a right thing. Perversions of that desire are what is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/71 "2006-04-07T22:50:02Z")
Don’t know what this means, if anything, but there’s no listing for this book on Amazon. Another sign pointing to “fake.” My Amazon search turned up another gem by Katherine DeBrecht: [Help! Mom! Hollywood’s in My Hamper!](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0976726912/sr=8-7/qid=1144449614/ref=pd_bbs_7/102-8607998-9972911?%5Fencoding=UTF8) You would think a family with such conservative values would have a gun to deal with these constant intruders. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/72 "2006-04-07T23:56:54Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > Don’t know what this means, if anything, but there’s no listing for this book on Amazon. Another sign pointing to “fake.” On the “About the Author” page Zilber refers to his other book, _Racialized Coverage of Congress: The News in Black and White_. This one is listed at Amazon. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/73 "2006-04-08T00:17:24Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Of course not. It is a duty owed to God and the children both. > > But for instilling religious and political values, **the best thing to do is to live up to them and set an example**. Books like this aren’t a substitute for the hard work that this entails. Bolding mine… That is the difficult part. Anyone can pull the “do as I say, not as I do”, but living it is a whole other thing. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/74 "2006-04-08T00:30:02Z")
> [@Greathouse](#): > > Why is there a homeless black man in a trenchcoat and ball cap in every picture? That is so that you can see the contrast between the presumably Republican people in the background, who are callously ignoring him, and the Democratic squirrels in the foreground who are … also ignoring him. So I dunno 😕 ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/75 "2006-04-08T00:49:40Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think the book is great. With all the unhealthy influences out there (Fox, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc) kids today need to learn what it means to be a Democrat. That’s why as a parent you have the responsibility to “teach the children well.” Lead by example and form a basis of core beleifs. Whether they be “Democrat” or “Republican”. Instill what you think are core beleifs. Be they religious, agnostic, atheist, whatever. There are exceptions in life, but I still think most here want their children to be good people. Whatever religion, political party, etc the kid identifies with, I still (maybe naively) [insert accent marks as seen fit], think parents want to raise a child that is strong enough in conviction to think for themselves. And if the kid goes in a completely opposite direction as you, respect it. Don’t paint the kid with the broad brugh of evil, either way. If the child comes home and tells you he beleives Jesus is his Savior, will you accept that? Can you accept him beleiving in something you don’t without protest? My youngest sister is about the most liberal person I know. We love each other and never argue, but she’d make some of the most die-hard liberals here blush. That’s why we don’t argue. We won’t change each other’s winds. Mom did what she could to bring her into “The Fold”, but it wasn’t to be. At that time. 5 years ago she was steadfast in never subjecting herself to a man in marriage. Next month she’s getting married. She’s wrong (In my mind), and she’ll be the first to tell you I’m wrong. It just won’t be in such a manner seen on these boards. We’re different, we know it, we accept it. And as much as she would identify with the atheists and agnostics here, she’d never tell someone with faith in the Church, or any other church, that they should reconsider. Neither, based on her actions, should I expect her children to be discouraged in faith because of her lack thereof. You see? Something as strong an issue as faith isn’t at all based on what channel a person watches. You can censor what a kid watches, but the ideas are still out there. If you want to censor ideas that don’t march lock-step with you, that’s what you decide. Just as mentioning what you see as indoctrinating news sources fall short of not mentioning news sources that are just as biased. But in-step with your bias. Filter the info to your kids. That’ll learn 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/76 "2006-04-08T02:08:20Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > [http://littledemocrats.net/](http://littledemocrats.net/) > Also, I like how the **Democratic** family is missing a daddy. FYP. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/77 "2006-04-08T04:50:37Z")
This book is ridiculous and inappropriate but not really unusual except for the particular ideology. Have you seen some of the religious shit that’s targeted at children? This is basically the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/78 "2006-04-08T05:03:43Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > This book is ridiculous and inappropriate but not really unusual except for the particular ideology. > > Have you seen some of the religious shit that’s targeted at children? This is basically the same thing. Are you at least willing to focus on the absurdity of both sides? If so, you have twice as many things to be pissed about. I love your anger when you’re right, and if you can include what some of “your” side does that you blame “my” side of, we can all be happy. Don’t let me down. Get righteous. ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/79 "2006-04-08T07:43:49Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > That’s why we don’t argue. _We won’t change each other’s winds_. Intentional or no, das gut! Preach on brother. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722/80 "2006-04-08T07:49:59Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > Intentional or no, das gut! Preach on brother. I was doing a cartwheel and hit the “M” at just the right time. Though winds/minds are equally good in the meaning of the post. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-mommy-is-a-democrat/351722.md?page=5)