If I didn’t, both Marley and Strassia didn’t as well. What do you precisely think happened? The Catholic Church were angry and *then *the administration made it a policy? What was the Catholic Church angry at? Was it a pre-policy? A policglett?
I do like that we’re *buddies *now. Old, pal.
The Catholics were angry, then Obama said “free contraceptives for all!” as a compromise. The compromise is what I was criticizing as a purely political policy choice.
Oh, well, I’ll agree that the compromise was political, since the outrage was a political problem. The rule before the compromise was that insurance provided by (non-church) employers had to provide birth control at no copay. The Church got angry because they said that their non church businesses like colleges and hospitals shouldn’t have to provide birth control.
The compromise is that the church doesn’t pay for birth control, that the insurance company provides it by absorbing the cost. No one is getting “free contraceptives for all” like you say.
I feel like we’re closer now that I understand you. Internet hug?
I was making the point that the consensus thus far in the thread didn’t hold up, i.e. that Republicans were deliberately misleading about the topic and that no one on the left was asking for “free birth control.” I graciously (or so I thought) offered that perhaps the liberal side has its folks who take any issue to the extreme and allowed that the right has it’s fair share of the same folks.
But carry on… I see the real purpose is as it always is on a liberal-dominated message board. Portray the right as extremist demagogues while portraying all liberals (not most, not the majority, not the mainstream) as well reasoned and entirely rational. Why, even if they say something entirely irrational, there will be plenty of folks to stand up and say she didn’t mean that, that it was poorly phrased!
When someone on my side says something stupid and asshole-ish, I’m not afraid to say that person is wrong. I don’t have a knee-jerk reaction to defend them as having misspoken and then claim that “no one on the right says anything remotely like that!” We got extremist jerks, you got got extremist jerks. It’s counterproductive to say “the issue is X” and the liberals who say “I want Y” are just misspeaking. There are people asking for free birth control, including Fluke.
Fluke was stating that the proposed system of requiring birth control to be covered by insurance is a good idea.
That isn’t free. You are capable of understanding that requiring birth control to be covered by insurance isn’t the same thing as “free birth control”, right? It’s not a complex distinction. It should be fairly clear.
Yes, you and I understand the difference between “free” and covered by insurance.
Apparently not everyone does. In our current society, people think of services and products covered by insurance – especially without a copay – as “free.” That’s not accurate, of course.
The woman asked for free contraceptives and she isn’t the only one. She was the only one to ask recently at a public meeting covered by the national media and memorialized on the Internet, but she is not alone. Why would the OP even ask about why contraceptives should be free? Was it prompted by this one lone, misguided, linguistically challenged woman at a Romney event?
Jesus H. Christ, I’ve tried to acknowledge that the all the matters discussed in this thread are the real issue about contraceptive coverage, but you won’t concede that yes, SOME people on the left really are asking for “free contraceptives.” Is it really free? Fuck no, nothing is really free. But they are asking for what they think of as “free contraceptives.”
Just looking for some intellectual honesty here. We don’t have to agree about the real issue of contraceptive coverage. (And in fact, you don’t even know what my position is on that.)
So a woman saying that free contraception would make her happy at a Republican convention is an extremist jerk, or am I missing something here?
I’m certain that specific individuals want everything under the sun for free. And I agree this issue isn’t about free stuff.
I contend that the reason “for free” is a hook for this issue is because the Republicans have labeled it as such. They did this in order to make the issue seem like a government handout which churns images of fat welfare queens being porked by unseemly ethnic penises in the Republican base. It acts as a shorthand that convinces the low-information voters out there, the people who listen to Rush, that this is charity to some lazy women who want to be paid to have sex.
In any case, many people see birth control provided with no copay as free, since they aren’t getting it now. If my landlord says I get access to another parking space for no increase in rent, I’d see it as free. That’s just terminology. The real issue, is that the country would be better if this rule was enacted.
As for extremists, of course both sides have them. The trouble is the extremists on the left don’t run the party and enact law.
According to Lobohan, apparently so. See, she isn’t saying the entirely reasonable thing that all liberals are REALLY saying about this issue. She’s saying she wants free contraceptives, period. And that’s crazy! Nobody is saying that!
Really? REALLY? That’s such an obvious distinction to you? Oh, the joys of delusion.
Oh, okay. Gotcha. This is the level of discourse here. No surprise. Republicans = racists.
Why do I let myself think a more rational discussion is possible on this board? Nevermind. Proceed with all the witty disparaging remarks.
Yes, poor oppressed Republicans who are passing multiple laws at the state level that are forcing women to undergo non-necessary medical procedures in order to interfere with a legal medical decision that should be between the woman and her doctor. There’s certainly no way that can be considered extremist.
This is a completely inaccurate statement of what Ms. Fluke was testifying for, and indicates that you have absolutely no idea what the actual issue is in this discussion.
What extremist things have Democrats, since Obama took over, tried to enact? Specifically. Is the Affordable Care Act extremist? Lilly Ledbetter? The Stimulus? Explain to me what the extremists in the Democratic sphere are pushing into law.
No. Not all Republicans are racists. Many of the Republican Base, who are the ones who vote in the primaries, are racists though. Shit half of southern Republicans think interracial marriage should be illegal.
You think I’m witty! :o
Yeah, I’m completely, utterly shocked at the presence of yet another outraged Republican apologist who is deeply offended by Fluke’s testimony without having the slightest fucking idea what she actually said.
Oh wait… that’s actually the only kind we’ve seen, isn’t it?
I imagine most of the thoughtful Republicans are sobbing quietly.
I know what Fluke testified about. What would you like to know?
Oh yes, do tell. I have the transcript of her testimony right here in front of me and I’d love to see your explanation of it.
One of the somewhat ironic uses of the pill is for successful IVF. If your hormonal balance is sub-optimal to start IVF, doctors sometimes recommend you commence using the pill to bring your cycle back into alignment over 2 - 3 weeks for IVF therapy to work best.
Obviously it’s not necessarily a huge group, and the duration isn’t long, but with trends in delayed marriage and procreation, IVF is increasingly an important part of having children.
What a perfectly ironic conclusion. “You don’t even know what my position” on the real issue is because I’ve spent all my efforts here tryong to focus you on the distracting misrepresentation! All I want is intellectual honesty.
Bullshit. If you were after intellectual honesty we would know your position and wouldn’t be reading post after post about what an anonymous person said one time.
I can’t understand why anyone would decline having insurance as part of their pay.It is a benifit to the worker because buying insurance for a number of people they get a cheaper rate than if bought as a private citizen.Our insurance,( over the years) have saved us a great deal of money.
I doubt that Most Catholics were angry, as I read that 85 % of Catholics use birth control in one way or the other!It is the clergy who are riled up(at least that is how it seems to me).