# Why \*must\* God be "good"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2002, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-god-be-good/143468 "2002-12-18T02:11:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ramanujan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/51bf81/32.png) [@Ramanujan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramanujan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-god-be-good/143468/41 "2002-12-19T00:58:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > Free from coercion. (Freedom means the absence of coercion.) And as I said, he chooses it for the same reason we all make our choices — He values it. so, then, the question becomes…where did god get his values? ---
**Author:** ![owlofcreamcheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@owlofcreamcheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlofcreamcheese)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-god-be-good/143468/42 "2002-12-19T05:57:08Z")
anyone saying “why does pain and suffering and tragity exist if god exists” has to remember: is all pain bad? does tragity lead to better good? is death a bad thing if heaven exists? God is good but god creates pain is a contradiction ONLY if pain is bad, you might not like it, but what? mabey your not the most important thing in the universe? mabey suffering and sadness and pain aren’t something thats ‘evil’ in the grand scheme of things. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-god-be-good/143468/43 "2002-12-19T12:35:24Z")
—Free from coercion. (Freedom means the absence of coercion.) — Everyone understands the idea of freedom from coercion. But at least admit that you are using the word as if it meant more than that: as if it reffered not to external pressures, but somehow described an internal state. To which I’ve asked: how can a being be free from… itself? It’s own nature, or functioning? If god’s nature is to value good, and you assert that he will never ever choose evil, then in what way is such a choice an excercise of free will, as opposed to simply an unfolding of eternal nature? It seems to me that the only free will is admitting that god could do evil tommorow out of the blue, or has done evil and you just don’t know it. —And as I said, he chooses it for the same reason we all make our choices — He values it.— That is simply insufficient. WHY does he value it? And if he values it, and consistently chooses it, then isn’t simply false to argue that giving beings free will is necessarily incompatible with creating beings that never sin? ---
**Author:** ![martin\_ibn\_martin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@martin\_ibn\_martin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martin_ibn_martin)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-god-be-good/143468/44 "2002-12-19T14:50:41Z")
I think we’re off the original topic somwhat. The Vorlon Ambassador’s Aide has the essence of my question, I think. I am asking Why do monotheists use the same words (good, benevolent, kind, merciful, etc.) to describe what in a human is one behavior and in God is frequently almost the opposite behavior? I am not asking. nor do I care in this instance, whether any indivindual person on here thinks their God is Good or not. ---
**Author:** ![Cyrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Cyrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyrin)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-god-be-good/143468/45 "2002-12-19T15:48:36Z")
As a monotheist myself, I follow a God who describes himself as Love. Not that he chooses to love us, or that he is loving, he is the very definition of Love. So I can then use God as my dictionary and look to him on how to Love. As far as “good” is concerned, it is up to us to decide weather or not Love is a “good” concept. If we decide it is, God is good, if we decide Love is not the way to go, then God is not good. We all struggle with the issue of pain and “bad” in our world. If God is capable of stoping the pain and the bad, why doesn’t he? Well, God is love, so if it would be loving to take away our free will, he would do that. As the definition of Love, he decides that he will give us power over ourselves, with the understanding that we may choose to cause pain and “bad” as a result of another being he has let tempt us against love. So we still have to choose if Love is “good”. Regardless of what we THINK God should do to be a good God, he isn’t, God is Love. So WE decide for ourselves if Love is “good”. I am aware that we as humans have our own notions of what Love SHOULD be as well, and sometimes we disagree with God’s choices, but if you believe in him, and he says “I am Love” you can’t really get past that. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-god-be-good/143468/46 "2002-12-19T17:06:44Z")
I’ve heard one theory that just as a loving parent will stop their child from eating chocolate all the time, so does God demonstrate his love in ways not obvious to us, His children. [http://www.mrlizard.com/catgod.html](http://www.mrlizard.com/catgod.html) takes an AK to that theory. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-god-be-good/143468.md?page=2)