# Why must I be forced to read this God-damned Marxist crap?!?!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 23, 2002, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211 "2002-09-23T02:14:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/1 "2002-09-23T02:14:57Z")
I am sick of this. I am sick of my English classes constantly giving us these damned Marxist and leftist papers to read in a class that should not have a damned thing to do with politics. Oh you would be amazed the amount of sickening collectivist philosophy one can cram into a paper discussing the meaning of Literacy. Here is an excerpt from the most recent paper given, ‘Confronting Class in the Classroom’ by bell hooks (_shudder_, and yes, it is supposed to be lower case). > [@](#): > > Bourgeois values in the classroom create a barrier, blocking the possibility of confrontation and conflict, warding off dissent. Students are often silenced by means of their acceptance of class values that teach them to maintain order at all costs. When the obsession with maintaining order is coupled with the fear of “loosing face,” or not being thought of well by one’s professors and peers, all possibility of constructive dialogue is undermined. Even though students enter the “democratic” classroom believing they have a right to “free speech,” most students are not comfortable exercising this right to “free speech.” Most students are not comfortable exercising this right—especially if it means that they must give voice to thoughts, ideas, feelings that go against the grain, that are unpopular. This censoring process is only one way bourgeois values overdetermine social behavior in the classroom and undermine the democratic exchange of ideas. This is not even the worst of that essay! The worst part is that this is being passed off as normal, accepted dogma to these students. This is worse then grade schoolers being given lessons about “creation science” as if it were an equal and accepted alternative to Evolution Theory. Tens of millions of people were not starved and butchered because of ‘creation science’. Most of the other kids in my 1C class are going to read this as if it is true, believing they are just ignorant, and if there is something that they do not understand or that seems wrong then it is their fault and they must struggle to understand and accept it. Why don’t they just start giving us excerpts from “Mein Kampf”, at least then the students would know what sort of evil is being handed to them. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/2 "2002-09-23T02:25:49Z")
I find that essay ironic. Especially since it tends to be the professors who espouse those sorts of beliefs who are generally the most likely to stifle debate and bully students into agreeing with them. At least in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/3 "2002-09-23T02:35:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Why don’t they just start giving us excerpts from “Mein Kampf”, at least then the students would know what sort of evil is being handed to them. What makes you think so? German students of the time read the book and, for the most part, didn’t cringe in horror. Of course, the Jews and Slavs were subhuman, destined for the human scrapheap. Common knowledge. It is a good and worthy part of education to expose the student to values wildly at variance with ones own, it causes one to reflect on ones own values, to affirm what one finds worthy, discard what one does not. Secondly, an awareness of social and economic class and its effects is not Marxist unless it further proposes solutions that are specificly Marxist. “Bourgeois” is not a technical term exclusive to political science, it has other implications. In this context, it seems to me, to be the paradigm of the conformist mentality. Thereby, it asserts that persons who espouse unpopular or unaccepted viewpoints are likely to find that they are uncomfortable expressing them, and are likely supress them, in essence, “censoring” themselves. Very likely true. Whats Marxist about that? Blatant racism is no longer an accepted “middle class” norm, someone who expresses such views is likely to be ostracized, and may very well “self-censor”. It’s far healthier all the way around to hear and examine all viewpoints, hell, even _Libertarian_ viewpoints. This is, of course, an extreme example. But I think you get my drift. ---
**Author:** ![Myrr21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Myrr21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrr21)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/4 "2002-09-23T02:35:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Tens of millions of people were not starved and butchered because of ‘creation science’ While I agree with you that any sort of politics is best left out of a class to which it does not apply, I think you’re being a little unfair here. Tens of millions of people are never starved or butchered for any reason other than “I’m a giant asshole and I have power and damn do I not like [insert tens of millions of people].” Also, the phrasing and…errrr…word that I can’t remember…are stupid, but there is something worthwhile in there–many students are afraid to speak up when they have a contrary opinion. I wouldn’t call it _evil_. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/5 "2002-09-23T02:36:04Z")
Very true, Neurotik. ---
**Author:** ![Rockford](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac8455/32.png) [@Rockford](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rockford)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/6 "2002-09-23T02:37:39Z")
Muad’Dib– \*\* > [@](#): > > I am sick of this. I am sick of my English classes constantly giving us these damned Marxist and leftist papers to read in a class that should not have a damned thing to do with politics. \*\* Take a deep breath Muad’Dib, the Cold War is over. Those Commies aren’t going to hurt you. Sorry to disappoint you, but everything the paper says is true. And what’s sadly ironic is that you are exactly the kind of person that the paper is criticizing. If you think that in a classroom, (which is supposed to be a place for open discussion), your values and beliefs should be held in higher esteem than those of others, then you don’t belong there. \*\* > [@](#): > > Why don’t they just start giving us excerpts from “Mein Kampf”, at least then the students would know what sort of evil is being handed to them. \*\* :rolleyes: And nice comparison, I can really see the similarities. Assclown. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/7 "2002-09-23T02:41:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muad’Dib \*Why don’t they just start giving us excerpts from “Mein Kampf”, at least then the students would know what sort of evil is being handed to them. You are so right, \*\*\*\*. And to add insult to injury you, or your parents or some donors are paying many thousands of dollars for you to be force-fed this crap. ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/8 "2002-09-23T02:50:07Z")
Is there an exception to Godwin’s law when Hitler gets thrown into the OP? 😃 Seriously though, read what is assigned to you. If you feel that your professor, or graduate student as the case may be, is truly not covering the appropriate material for the class, or won’t give you a fair grade for expressing your disagreement, then you might consider talking with the department head. It is great for a class to expose you to new ideas, it is not so great when a class becomes a soap box for an aging radical to keep beating a dead horse. Use your discretion. ---
**Author:** ![Rockford](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac8455/32.png) [@Rockford](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rockford)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/9 "2002-09-23T02:53:09Z")
december– > [@](#): > > You are so right, . And to add insult to injury you, or your parents or some donors are paying many thousands of dollars for you to be force-fed this crap. December, did it ever occur to you that the majority of people, even many right wing people, want to be able to learn in a democratic environment and not be shouted down by a minority of arrogant, extreme-right wing individuals like yourself? If you don’t like it then go elsewhere, instead of trying to ruin it for everyone else. You can take your pompous, elitist views and shove them up your ass, dicknose. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/10 "2002-09-23T03:00:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rockford \*December, did it ever occur to you that the majority of people, even many right wing people, want to be able to learn in a democratic environment and not be shouted down by a minority of arrogant, extreme-right wing individuals like yourself? If you don’t like it then go elsewhere, instead of trying to ruin it for everyone else. You can take your pompous, elitist views and shove them up your ass, dicknose. :mad: Prozaq not working? You might want to try Celexa, instead. Or, there’s a new one called Lexapro. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/11 "2002-09-23T03:01:17Z")
Rockford, the only one acting like a pompus, eltist, extremist, dicknose, assclown (what ever the hell that is) and shouting people down is you. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/12 "2002-09-23T03:03:50Z")
Hilarious. **Rockford** flames **december** for using his free speech. Like I was saying…apparently democratic exchange for some means a democratic exchange of ideas that they agree with and that it’s often the people who espouse this point of view who are the most egregious violators. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/13 "2002-09-23T03:05:27Z")
**Rockford** , blow it out your leftist ass. The world does not revolve around force-feeding students marxist crap. Just because you may be foolish enough to believe in such garbage, many, **Muad’Dib** included it seems, are bright enough to recognize such tripe for what it is. Nobody is prevent _you_ from sitting at home and enjoying your communist bullshit (You have never lived in a workers paradise, I bet.) But people of your ilk need to stop pimping such shit on the youth. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/14 "2002-09-23T03:06:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Tens of millions of people are never starved or butchered for any reason other than “I’m a giant asshole and I have power and damn do I not like [insert tens of millions of people].” Nonsense. Ideas have consequences. What, you think the communist world, through some fluke of biology, wound up with more genocidal assholes than did the west? Communism directly leads to oppression and even genocide because the principles inherent in the philosophy do not oppose it, and even encourage it. Western democracies do not tend to lead to oppression because they hold the individual and the individual’s rights as inviolate. Communist countries treat the ‘good of the group’ as surpassing the needs of the individual. Nazi Germany was not some fluke of demographics that created hundreds of thousands of monsters. It CREATED hundreds of thousands of monsters because of a twisted ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Jurhael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@Jurhael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurhael)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/15 "2002-09-23T03:07:16Z")
“Rockford, the only one acting like a pompus, eltist, extremist, dicknose, assclown (what ever the hell that is) and shouting people down is you.” You looking in a mirror when you say that? He was far more reasonable than you or December could ever be. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/16 "2002-09-23T03:12:44Z")
Right, **Jurhael** , because it was **december** and **Maud’Dib** calling people dicknoses and screaming at them. Even using the angry face. Gimme a break. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/17 "2002-09-23T03:13:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*Prozaq not working? You might want to try Celexa, instead. Or, there’s a new one called Lexapro. \*\* Excuse me, but would you MIND not using people taking anti-depressants as a fucking INSULT, asshat? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/18 "2002-09-23T03:16:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\* > > Excuse me, but would you MIND not using people taking anti-depressants as a fucking INSULT, asshat? \*\* Sounds like someones Paxil prescription ran out… ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/19 "2002-09-23T03:16:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Excuse me, but would you MIND not using people taking anti-depressants as a fucking INSULT, asshat? \*\* Why not? I’m one, too. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211/20 "2002-09-23T03:38:18Z")
Why am I not surprised about that claim? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-must-i-be-forced-to-read-this-god-damned-marxist-crap/129211.md?page=2)