# Why no American Autobahn? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 20, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368 "2003-02-20T18:00:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![aeropl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f05b48/32.png) [@aeropl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aeropl)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368/41 "2003-02-20T21:02:34Z")
I believe Worldeater was talking about our “system” as our system of speed limits. If we changed our speed limits to “reasonable and prudent” it wouldn’t require us to rebuild/reroute every highway. The road maintenace costs would go up, but not by trillions of dollars. I would say the major obstacles of the U.S. changing to something like the Autobahn system of speed limits would be the increase in health costs. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Exapno Mapcase \* > \*\*Changing the current interstate highway system would cost untold billions of dollars, possibly trillions of dollars. Every alteration of a route involves either purchase of property - expensive and difficult in the crowded northeast and near all metro areas - or eminent domain condemnation - costly and drawn-out. Each additional foot of road width adds hugely to the total cost of the system - and don’t forget maintenance and repair costs. New routes are next to impossible because that much free land is no longer available. All the best and most traveled routes already have Interstate highways and they are already crowded with cars. Highways are already subsidized by gas taxes: try to get an additional few trillion dollars by that route. > > Your dream of flying down the open highway at 130mph is a delusion. It exists under the most narrow circumstances in parts of Germany and perhaps de facto in open areas of the American west, but it can not happen between New York and Boston. > > I also believe that American cars and drivers cannot and should not drive at those speeds, but that is a side argument. There are just too many other cars going where you want to go, when you want to go, to make that an issue. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![aeropl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f05b48/32.png) [@aeropl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aeropl)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368/42 "2003-02-20T21:10:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ethilrist \* > \*\ ***SylverOne** –I notice that that report had no data on the number of vehicles using the roads at various times. I would expect there would be at least a few people who would say, “Well, I’m only going to the next town; I’ll take the back road rather than pull out onto the highway were people might be doing 150 in their sports cars…” Fewer cars on the road means fewer accidents no matter what, and if the majority of those drivers are expecting to get passed by some speed demon, they’re going to be more careful drivers. > > In other words, I think that report is missing some data. Did accidents or traffic on side roads increase when the accidents on the main roads decreased? \*\* That’s one possible explanation, but I would think the fact that people tend to be more alert during high-speed driving played a bigger role in why there were so few accidents during the period of no speed limits. That is, when people are driving 100 mph, they tend to not use a cell phone, feed the baby in the backseat, tune the radio, and watch for traffic at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff41](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e99b99/32.png) [@Jeff41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff41)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368/43 "2003-02-20T21:10:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*It seems that highspeed ground travel in general is a pipedream in the US. Look no further then Acela. That was the best they could come up with? It looks like almost all of these answers apply to why we couldn’t do it today, but what about when the interstates were first built? I guess what I’m asking is vague, but hopefully you get the gist of it. What are the factors that shaped the highway system into what it is today. Was it human intervention? Or did it just sort of evolve into the present? Sorry for all the questions, I find it interesting that a system may work well for one country but not another. \*\* Our interstate highway system was originally, as someone mentioned earlier, a means for transporting military vehicles cross country very quickly in case of a war on American soil. Over the years it became this country’s main method of freight transit and commuter routes around cities. With the amount of traffic growing at its current rate, I believe I heard that they will have to add an extra lane on to every interstate every 10-16 years to keep the same level of congestion. ---
**Author:** ![Lagged2Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ac8455/32.png) [@Lagged2Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lagged2Death)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368/44 "2003-02-20T21:25:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aeropl \* > \*\*I would think … people tend to be more alert during high-speed driving… > > …When people are driving 100 mph, they tend to not use a cell phone, feed the baby in the backseat, tune the radio, and watch for traffic at the same time. \*\* I could accept that you personally would be more alert driving at such speeds. I’d like to think that I would be equally attentive - meaning quite attentive - at 60 or 100. But believing the American public _in general_ would be more attentive at speed is another thing. This is anecdotal, I know. But the people I see on the road who are doing 20MPH faster than average, swooping between lanes and “threading the needle” with every tiny gap in traffic - they always seem to be on the phone. Oh well, this thread had “Great Debates” written all over it from the start, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![SylverOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SylverOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SylverOne)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368/45 "2003-02-20T21:25:59Z")
**Ethilrist** says: > [@](#): > > SylverOne–I notice that that report had no data on the number of vehicles using the roads at various times. I would expect there would be at least a few people who would say, “Well, I’m only going to the next town; I’ll take the back road rather than pull out onto the highway were people might be doing 150 in their sports cars…” Fewer cars on the road means fewer accidents no matter what, and if the majority of those drivers are expecting to get passed by some speed demon, they’re going to be more careful drivers. > > In other words, I think that report is missing some data. Did accidents or traffic on side roads increase when the accidents on the main roads decreased? Not sure, I’ll go look for some stats, but from my own personal experience, here’s my take on things… The lack of a set speed limit was not limited to the Interstate systems. Our main highways and secondary (two lane) highways also fell under the reasonable and prudent laws. The secondary highways being the ‘backroads’ you speak of. If you were going to the next town, unless you knew of some poorly maintained dirt road, the route you would take would be considered a secondary highway, and would be as limitless as the interstate. Basically, if it was paved, and not in a residential or urban district, and not covered in livestock, it’s considered a highway in Montana. 😃 I kid you not. I googled “speed limit”+montana+statistics and got 1040 hits. It’s gonna take a bit to sort through all those. Surprisingly, the general consensus states that it was the out-of staters that would push the limits more often than the locals. Which makes sense in some ways, you can’t throw a rock without hitting a Montanan who hasn’t lost someone on the highways due to speed, nasty weather, or general stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368/46 "2003-02-20T21:28:12Z")
Probably, I was looking at a more black or white answer as to why our system is the way it is, and we’ve had some good responses to that effect. ---
**Author:** ![Bottle\_of\_Smoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Bottle\_of\_Smoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bottle_of_Smoke)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368/47 "2003-02-20T21:43:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aeropl \* > \*\*That would be pretty scary to be driving 75mph and have a deer on the road at dusk. \*\* Hoo boy, is it ever. Hitting one at 75mph in the dark is a real pants-wetting experience as well (or would have been, had I not used a rest stop a few miles earlier). This was on I-94 north of Madison, WI. It is pretty common to see deer carcasses along the interstate in the winter around here. I’ve only hit one once, but I have had a few other close calls, and many more sightings, including seeing a bear(!) trying to cross I-39 last winter. ---
**Author:** ![Rob\_V](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Rob\_V](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rob_V)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368/48 "2003-02-20T21:52:13Z")
Why don’t more states dispose of posted speed limits? one word: M-O-N-E-Y ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368/49 "2003-02-20T21:55:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*Btw are there any other countries with a system similar to the Autobahn? \*\* Most western European countries have similar systems. The French one is very good although about half of the system is toll roads but they are very good and the best way to get from A to B ( except in August when the French migrate south to the Med. ) Speed limits are 130 KPH reducing to 110 KPH when it is raining ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368/50 "2003-02-20T22:18:37Z")
For those who have been there, what is the sports car/high performance sedan to SUV/RV ratio on the Autobahn? **aeropl** , what do you mean by “I would say the major obstacles of the U.S. changing to something like the Autobahn system of speed limits would be the increase in health costs.” Are you saying that far more people would crash and hurt or kill themselves or others? **Rayne Man** , that’s very similar to the speeds on US Interstates. And in Canada I remember being passed like I was standing still, while doing 136 kph on a steep hill. People used to drive like maniacs on the QEW too, but today it’s too crowded for 100 miles out of Toronto to do so. **World Eater** , you’ve been hypnotized by a vision of an Autobahn that was (or possibly never really was). Highway speed is far more a function of the usage of a system than of legal posted speed. The US highway system is a match in reality of speed for any system in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368/51 "2003-02-20T22:46:25Z")
Yes, you could do away with posted speed limits on the interstates. But it wouldn’t make the traffic go any faster. There are places were it is perfectly safe to zoom along at 80 to 90 mph (130-140 kph). But most of the time commuters are stuck in bumper to bumper traffic. Increasing the speed limit isn’t the answer, since most cars can’t go the speed limit, because there is too much congestion. Once a certain number of cars are on the road with you you HAVE to slow down or you can’t maintain even a fraction of a prudent stopping distance. Everyone slows down, and it takes longer for everyone to get to their destination, which means more cars on the road for longer times, everyone has to slow down more, and suddenly it’s stop and go. The German Autobahns for years were free of this. Why? Because many were constructed before the war, on a grandiose scale. After the war no one had cars, it took decades to recover. The massively overbuilt Autobahns easily absorbed the traffic. But now they are at capacity, and are pretty much like American interstates. What makes high speeds possible is the lack of other cars on the roads. If no one is using the freeway you can go super fast. But that open road is a magnet for drivers, because they can drive faster on it. More and more people get on the freeway. Until eventually it is clogged, and everyone is inching along. I’ve always fantasized about an traffic control system, a central station monitors traffic. If traffic gets too congested, the controllers can shut down specific freeway on ramps until everyone can go 60 mph again. Then the ramps open up to allow more cars onto the freeway. Since traffic is going at high speeds, drivers get to their destinations faster and get off the roads faster, which means that you wouldn’t have to shut down on ramps as often as you might think. I’ve always thought that applying just the tiniest bit of feedback to the system could drastically improve congestion. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368/52 "2003-02-20T22:49:37Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve always fantasized about an traffic control system, a central station monitors traffic. If traffic gets too congested, the controllers can shut down specific freeway on ramps until everyone can go 60 mph again. Then the ramps open up to allow more cars onto the freeway. Since traffic is going at high speeds, drivers get to their destinations faster and get off the roads faster, which means that you wouldn’t have to shut down on ramps as often as you might think. I’ve always thought that applying just the tiniest bit of feedback to the system could drastically improve congestion. Ya mean metering lights? ---
**Author:** ![Jeff41](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e99b99/32.png) [@Jeff41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff41)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368/53 "2003-02-21T00:45:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lemur866 \* > \*\*Yes, you could do away with posted speed limits on the interstates. But it wouldn’t make the traffic go any faster. There are places were it is perfectly safe to zoom along at 80 to 90 mph (130-140 kph). But most of the time commuters are stuck in bumper to bumper traffic. Increasing the speed limit isn’t the answer, since most cars can’t go the speed limit, because there is too much congestion. Once a certain number of cars are on the road with you you HAVE to slow down or you can’t maintain even a fraction of a prudent stopping distance. Everyone slows down, and it takes longer for everyone to get to their destination, which means more cars on the road for longer times, everyone has to slow down more, and suddenly it’s stop and go. > > The German Autobahns for years were free of this. Why? Because many were constructed before the war, on a grandiose scale. After the war no one had cars, it took decades to recover. The massively overbuilt Autobahns easily absorbed the traffic. But now they are at capacity, and are pretty much like American interstates. > > What makes high speeds possible is the lack of other cars on the roads. If no one is using the freeway you can go super fast. But that open road is a magnet for drivers, because they can drive faster on it. More and more people get on the freeway. Until eventually it is clogged, and everyone is inching along. > > I’ve always fantasized about an traffic control system, a central station monitors traffic. If traffic gets too congested, the controllers can shut down specific freeway on ramps until everyone can go 60 mph again. Then the ramps open up to allow more cars onto the freeway. Since traffic is going at high speeds, drivers get to their destinations faster and get off the roads faster, which means that you wouldn’t have to shut down on ramps as often as you might think. I’ve always thought that applying just the tiniest bit of feedback to the system could drastically improve congestion. \*\* Actually, it’s not the actual volume of traffic that limits, but the drivers. I read a traffic study that showed once the road reached a certain congestion level, drivers start going slower and allowing far too much following distance. This is what causes traffic to come to a dead halt in the middle of the freeway. ---
**Author:** ![Lorenzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4da419/32.png) [@Lorenzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorenzo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368/54 "2003-02-21T00:52:39Z")
A few reasons why we have a 65 mph speed limit, many previously cited by other posters: Cars designed for the US market, while typically capable of attaining speeds in the neighborhood of 100 mph, are not so good at slowing down quickly from that speed, especially the vast majority that are equipped with rear drum brakes. Anything involving steering at 65 mph is much more pronounced at 100 mph. How many folks would we lose while trying to learn to drive at such speeds? Statistically, it is speed differential and not speed per se that kills. Those that drive the fastest have the highest casualty rate followed closely by those who drive the slowest. Yes, there are a few confounds but one can at least imagine intuitively how cars travelling at grossly different speeds are more likely to collide. But how in the world could anything get Americans to drive the same speed? The adventuresome types might try the higher speeds but many safety conscious drivers would probably stick to 65-75 mph. Poor driving skills. At high speeds, being able to trust other drivers is of paramount importance. Will that Chevette stay in its lane or will he cut me off as I am trying to overtake him because he wants to go 2 mph faster than the Diesel Rabbit that he is tailgaiting? Litigation Fuel economy and pollution: Cars in the US market generally achieve maximum gas mileage at minimum practical rpm in top gear. For most cars this is about 45-60 mph. Mileage drops above this speed. As speeds increase pollution generated also increases. Revenue: Speeding tickets generate lots o’ cash. Although it may not always be a profitable as it looks, it also creates jobs. Auto Insurance Companies: Not gonna’ like it a bit. Cost/Benefit: The equivalent of entire lives are lost every year by folks travelling on wide open interstates at 70 mph instead of their vehicle’s top speed, fifteen minutes at a time, time that could be spent doing whatever that individual wants at his home or his destination instead of trapped in a car. When I travel to visit my sister who lives 175 miles away, I lose an hour each way by travelling at an average of 60 mph (it is impossible to average 65 mph without speeding) vs averaging 90 mph, which I have seemingly safely but illegally done on a few occasions. But the decision makers probably look at these things differently. So instead of having no speed limits we are free to drive as fast as we want as long as we are willing to accept the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Flying\_Monk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/48db29/32.png) [@Flying\_Monk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flying_Monk)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368/55 "2003-02-21T01:03:42Z")
I lived in Germany for 2 years, and I can say that Germans are far better drivers than Americans. The autobahns have more curves than our highways, not less, and most of the ones I drove on had only 2 lanes…but people drive staggered, so if suddenly everyone has to stop they pull next to each other, so they have twice as much room to stop in. You never see someone sitting in the left lane blocking traffic, like you do every day over here. German drivers pay attention, and when someone is approaching they change lanes to let the overtaking driver pass without slowing down, like we’re supposed to over here. Also, the lines on the roads are never faded, and most intersections have curved mirrors on posts to aid visibility. They care about pollution over there, as well…including noise pollution. If you honk your horn for no reason, you can get a ticket. Hence, you rarely hear a horn. ---
**Author:** ![prisoner6655321](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f8ce5/32.png) [@prisoner6655321](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/prisoner6655321)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368/56 "2003-02-21T02:05:20Z")
Dang! I need to move to Germany. I H8 the way Americans drive. I believe that one of the most accurate methods to judge people is by the way they drive. People are truly themselves when they are inside their “protective” shell of a vehicle. If they truly are courteous, they will drive courteously. If they are jerks, they treat other people’s cars that way. If they don’t give a damn about other people then they will treat other vehicles as if they don’t exist. With the comments about the way Germans drive I wonder. Are German people more intuitive, efficient, and courteous? Wouldn’t suprise me at all. ---
**Author:** ![Dragonblink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Dragonblink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragonblink)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368/57 "2003-02-21T03:00:25Z")
I’d like to reiterate the point about how hard and expensive it is to get a driver’s license in Germany. We learned about this in German class and hoo boy, it makes getting a license in America look like ordering a Big Mac (and this from a person who only just got her license at 22, which in Southern California makes people consider me developmentally disabled). Also, the US has a hard enough time maintaining the incredible amount of paving it takes to link this big ol’ country together. It’d probably be cheaper to lay more railroad tracks than maintain the existing highways to the extent that the Autobahn is maintained. (please note: IANATransportation engineer, and my Civil Engineer roommate is out at the moment, so that might be way off base) ---
**Author:** ![In\_Conceivable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4bbf92/32.png) [@In\_Conceivable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Conceivable)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368/58 "2003-02-21T12:26:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aeropl \* > \*\*Mainly Florida, and the far southeast. I guess NC/SC would be an exception because of the heavy woods around there? Also the deer here in Florida are pretty small so the fences would be more effective. I’m sure most deer can easily get over a 4-foot fence. Were the deer you mentioned dead on the road, or alive and walking on the road? That would be pretty scary to be driving 75mph and have a deer on the road at dusk. \*\* Live and walking around. A whole family of them more then once. I have seen dead ones on I 40. (Once I even saw a deer cross I 40 during mid day). Believe me, that was scary. NC and SC have tons of deer. They are a real problem here in some areas. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-american-autobahn/156368.md?page=2)