# Why no Atheists on the Supreme Court? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 10, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915 "2010-05-10T15:01:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/41 "2010-05-12T15:37:39Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Depends. A lot of “Jews” are only so culturally and ethnically-many are de facto agnostics or atheists in the sense they do not believe in God, the soul, and/or the afterlife. What branches of Judaism are the Jewish Supreme Court Judges? It’s possible to be a practicing religious Jew and an atheist (or agnostic, or even ignostic, which I suspect most progressive/liberal branches really are). So yes, it’s entirely possible Ginsberg and/or Breyer are atheists, unless either of them has said anything to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/42 "2010-05-12T15:40:17Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I’m a Christian, and I support abortion rights. I think abortion is a ‘Bad Thing’, and I wish that no woman would ever choose to have one, but I don’t think that the government should take that choice away from her. Contrariwise, I have an atheist lesbian friend who is strongly anti-abortion and thinks it should be illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/43 "2010-05-12T15:53:03Z")
Richard Posner is too old, and is certainly not going to be nominated to the Supreme Court by a Democrat, but is at least somewhat openly an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/44 "2010-05-12T19:27:42Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’ve no idea, just a reasonable expectation that among nine reasonably well-educated Americans of varied backgrounds, one has privately let their religious views lapse. I’d be surprised if it is only one, actually. I strongly suspect that even amongst regular church goers there is a huge variety in levels of faith, from the truly devout to people who just go because their family has always gone, or all their friends are there, or they married into a regular church going family, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/45 "2010-05-12T19:37:19Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Depends. A lot of “Jews” are only so culturally and ethnically-many are de facto agnostics or atheists in the sense they do not believe in God, the soul, and/or the afterlife. What branches of Judaism are the Jewish Supreme Court Judges? **Curtis** , why do you put _Jews_ in quotes? Also, are you under the impression that the survival of individual after physical death is a tenet universal to Judaism? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/46 "2010-05-22T03:42:09Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > **Curtis** , why do you put _Jews_ in quotes? > > Also, are you under the impression that the survival of individual after physical death is a tenet universal to Judaism? Some Reform Jews do not believe in any sort of deity altogether so religiously speaking they are not really Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/47 "2010-05-22T03:43:18Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I’m a Christian, and I support abortion rights. I think abortion is a ‘Bad Thing’, and I wish that no woman would ever choose to have one, but I don’t think that the government should take that choice away from her. Well with what evils should people be allowed to commit freely? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/48 "2010-05-22T03:58:16Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Some Reform Jews do not believe in any sort of deity altogether so religiously speaking they are not really Jewish. Again, this is wrong. It has nothing to do with being Reform or Jewish. The same could be said of any Christian denomination. Stop talking about things that you really don’t know about. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/49 "2010-05-22T04:04:41Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Again, this is wrong. It has nothing to do with being Reform or Jewish. The same could be said of any Christian denomination. Stop talking about things that you really don’t know about. If someone say attends a Catholic or Baptist or Episcopalian or any other church but does not believe in God than he isn’t a Christian. Same thing for Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/50 "2010-05-22T04:21:29Z")
Judaism has a different definition for what is required to be Jew. Believe it or not, theism isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/51 "2010-05-22T04:56:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Judaism has a different definition for what is required to be Jew. Believe it or not, theism isn’t one of them. In Orthodox Judaism it is. Pretty much all of the Rambam’s 13 principles of faith rely on the existence of God, and the first five make it explicit: > [@](#): > > I believe with perfect faith that the Creator, Blessed be His Name, is the Creator and Guide of everything that has been created; He alone has made, does make, and will make all things. > > I believe with perfect faith that the Creator, Blessed be His Name, is One, and that there is no unity in any manner like His, and that He alone is our God, who was, and is, and will be. > > I believe with perfect faith that the Creator, Blessed be His Name, has no body, and that He is free from all the properties of matter, and that there can be no (physical) comparison to Him whatsoever. > > I believe with perfect faith that the Creator, Blessed be His Name, is the first and the last. > > I believe with perfect faith that to the Creator, Blessed be His Name, and to Him alone, it is right to pray, and that it is not right to pray to any being besides Him. So does Conservative Judaism. From the Emet Ve-Emunah, Conservative Judaism’s statement of principles: > [@](#): > > We believe in God. Indeed, Judaism cannot be detached from belief in, or beliefs about God. Residing always at the very heart of our self-understanding as a people, and of all Jewish literature and culture, God permeates our language, our law, our conscience, and our lore. If you’re talking about Reform or Reconstructionist Judaism, that’s closer to the truth, just because Reform Judaism focuses so much on individual autonomy and independence of belief that it’s hard to say that Reform Judaism as a whole believes in anything (although the current statement of principles of the Central Conference of American Rabbis does start “We affirm the reality and oneness of God, even as we may differ in our understanding of the Divine presence.”) and the standard Reconstructionist view of God isn’t traditionally theistic. It’s a more pantheistic/naturalistic/God is the universe and natural law view. eta: But, of course, just because somebody doesn’t believe in God doesn’t mean he’s not really Jewish. He’s just a Jew that doesn’t believe in God. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/52 "2010-05-22T05:05:09Z")
Even Orthodox Jews don’t believe you’ve really left Judaism just because you’re not oservant or don’t believe in God. You’ve only left if you actively begin to believe or practice another religion. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/53 "2010-05-22T05:44:33Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Well with what evils should people be allowed to commit freely? I think you have an extra word in there somewhere, so I’m not sure how to answer (since I’m not sure what question you are asking)… ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/54 "2010-05-22T05:49:58Z")
Exactly. As far as most types of institutional Judaism are concerned, if you don’t believe in God at all, that may make you not a very **good** Jew, but it doesn’t make you cease **being** a Jew altogether. It doesn’t even make you “not really Jewish”. If you were born Jewish and you haven’t explicitly renounced Judaism in favor of another form of worship, you’re still a Jew. That’s fundamentally different from so-called “confessional” religions like Christianity and Islam, where a positive “confession of faith”, i.e. belief in the deity, is an essential part of being a member of that religion. (Why do these halakha debates always get going on Friday nights?) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/55 "2010-05-22T15:37:39Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Well with what evils should people be allowed to commit freely? You have to define “evils.” ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/56 "2010-05-22T16:53:19Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Every study that I’ve heard of says that atheists are either the least trusted group in America or the runner up for it. Atheists are despised in this country. Most Americans I’m sure would assume that an atheist candidate for the court was either evil because they don’t believe in God, or really a believer and lying about it (because after all, “everyone knows” that God is real so anyone claiming to be an atheist is lying). This. [Here](http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/AtheistSurveys.htm) is a link with relevant poll numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/57 "2010-05-23T01:27:32Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I think you have an extra word in there somewhere, so I’m not sure how to answer (since I’m not sure what question you are asking)… What acts that you think are evil should be banned by law and which shouldn’t? > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You have to define “evils.” What _Suburban Plankton_ believes to be evil. I was aiming the question at that poster. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/58 "2010-05-23T01:54:24Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I think that there are no atheists in the Supreme court is a direct consequence of how our system works. The overwhelming majority of the country believes in God (86%, but the exact percentage is irrelevant). As such, chances are an even higher percentage of our elected officials will be religious. Thus, anyone that is likely to be selected by the president and be confirmed by congress is even more likely to be religious. So I would say the supreme court is sort of like a representation of the representation of the people, so minorities get marginalized. > > Then further consider that there’s not really any sort of organized movement, at least not that I’m aware of, to get atheist representation elected or appointed like there is for most other minorities like race, sex, orientation, etc. We got a black President. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/59 "2010-05-23T02:17:30Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > What acts that you think are evil should be banned by law and which shouldn’t? > > What _Suburban Plankton_ believes to be evil. I was aiming the question at that poster. **SP** never used the word “evil.” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915/60 "2010-05-23T19:17:31Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > That’s fundamentally different from so-called “confessional” religions like Christianity and Islam, where a positive “confession of faith”, i.e. belief in the deity, is an essential part of being a member of that religion. I don’t know about Christianity, but I know in Islam, if you stop believing in God, you’re still a Muslim (and with the laws in some of the stricter Muslim countries, likely to be a dead one). You’re considered a Muslim if you’ve converted to Islam or if your father’s a Muslim. Whatever you actually believe after you have that status is irrelevant as far as Muslims are concerned. I think the same thing is true of Catholicism, at least. You might be a heretic or an apostate, but you’re a Catholic heretic or Catholic apostate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-atheists-on-the-supreme-court/538915.md?page=4)