# Why no calls for 'civility' from liberals in wake of "tastes like hate" anti-Chick-Fil-A campaign? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 16, 2012, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656 "2012-08-16T08:55:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/81 "2012-08-17T20:56:39Z")
On topic (responding to the OP): Because Dan Cathy did make his statement out of hate. There is absolutely no reason that exists in the entirety of the multiverse that justifies denying gays their rights. The only (frivolous) reason is religion. Thus, no need to call for civility by liberals because conservatives have already ran with their play of hate and bigotry. Calling it hate is correct, factual, and proper As for the lone shooter, he was working alone. He doesn’t represent liberals. The Tea Party, hating Democrats, abortion clinic picketing DOES represent conservatives, and away from the public eye they are proud of most of them. Thus, no need for liberals to call for civility ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/82 "2012-08-17T21:13:21Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I mean, they’ve been objectively (:rolleyes:) “vetted” as an Official hate Group. So, for some people, they are worthy of hate themselves. And if you hate someone because they are objectively hateful, there’s a few short steps between that and “they’re EVIL!!!”. And they must be stopped. and by golly, if I don’t stand up and teach them a lesson, who will. So we’re not allowed to call a spade a spade? We’re not allowed to point out that the FRC spews hatred, for fear that some crazy guy will try to shoot them? Do we just have to say nice things about everyone, no matter how vile they are? > [@magellan01](#): > > When you have a supposed independent deliberative body concluding that a group is a HATE GROUP, you’re encouraging everyone to discount everything they say. That’s true, I do encourage everyone to discount everything the FRC says. Not because they’re “evil,” but because the things they say are motivated by hate. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/83 "2012-08-17T21:22:25Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > So we’re not allowed to call a spade a spade? We’re not allowed to point out that the FRC spews hatred, for fear that some crazy guy will try to shoot them? Do we just have to say nice things about everyone, no matter how vile they are? Only if you are left wing. If you are right wing it’s fine to bash people all you want. Or at least, that’s the effective position that the defenders of the FRC and other hate groups are taking; they certainly aren’t “civil” after all. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/84 "2012-08-17T21:24:52Z")
Oh, when will this vile campaign of discrimination against bigotry _ever_ end? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/85 "2012-08-17T21:40:59Z")
It’s going to be a great day for the actual hate groups out there if people stop accurately describing them because it’s “uncivil” or an incitement to violence. Civility is great, but it’s not the be all and end all of discourse. In fact it stops being a good thing right about the time you stop calling the KKK or the Aryan Knights of Whatever hate groups. After that point it becomes bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/86 "2012-08-17T21:47:02Z")
Yeah, there’s that whole; “Silence implies Consent” and “All that is necessary for Evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing” business. So good people should just shut the hell up and stop calling Evil evil, because it’s ever so rude and un-civil to point out how wrong something is.\* And really, in the larger scheme of things, being mean to evil people by calling them evil makes you just as bad as they are (to paraphrase or continue the logic if the guy on this board who keeps insisting that Faramir was as bad as Sauron because of the way he treated Gollum). - Unless you’re citing the Bible or Republican talk radio people as your reason for calling it wrong, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/87 "2012-08-17T21:54:21Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Yeah, there’s that whole; > > “Silence implies Consent” and “All that is necessary for Evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing” business. You didn’t hear? They changed it “All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to be insufficiently polite.” It was a real tough break for good. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/88 "2012-08-17T22:02:16Z")
OP, instead of making false assumptions, why don’t you just ask what kind of response would be considered civil? I think you would be shocked to find that most liberals would not consider shooting or destruction of property to be civil. Nor would they applaud pictures of Dan Cathy with a target on his head and the phrase “second amendment remedies” Most liberals, I believe, would not agree with elected officials singling out Chick-Fil-A and trying to prevent them from opening restaurants in their city. Calling out bigotry as hateful, or organizing a boycott, however, are both appropriate responses. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/89 "2012-08-17T22:45:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That analogy actually doesn’t go far enough; you’d also have to be funding groups that call for Christian couples have their children taken away from them, and for Christianity itself to be declared a felony. Fair enough. Obviously we’ll be campaigning to make it legal for rationalists to discriminate against Christians–it’d be unConstitutional to force us to hire religious people, after all, a violation of The Wall. Moreover, though, we don’t want parents to indoctrinate their children into superstition, so we’ll work to place the children of religious families into foster care with rationalist families. And while we might not push too hard to outlaw Christianity entirely, we’ll certainly support bringing charges against anyone who corrupts a minor through youth groups or whatever. Again, I expect people to oppose these proposals, but to do so civilly; certainly nobody would stoop to calling us bigots or a hate group for trying to take Christians’ rights away. That would be rude. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/90 "2012-08-18T00:37:22Z")
I don’t think it’s uncivil to object to what a company does with it’s money, to decide not to do business there , and to educate and encourage others to follow suit. There are certainly ways to be uncivil with that information. Blaming the owners of franchises for the donations of the parent company is a mistake. Judge those individuals as individuals. Blaming the employees , like that jerk who filmed and posted himself berating some young girl at a chick Fil A drive through. I know people have lost their patience and I don’t blame them for speaking out assertively against the bigotry of certain people and groups. Still, lashing out in slef righteous anger without being judicious about it can certainly be uncivil. That said, people object to the label of bigot if they oppose SSM and try to paint it as an honest and innocent difference of opinion. They are wrong. When you actively oppose equality for your fellow citizens it not at all as subjective as your favorite flavor ice cream or style of music. An opinion that affects the lives of others so seriously has a moral obligation for a more thought and a closer look at the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/91 "2012-08-18T01:04:56Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > While I think “blaming them” goes WAY to far, he has a point that they make attacks against groups they list a little more okay. I mean, they’ve been objectively (:rolleyes:) “vetted” as an Official hate Group. So, for some people, they are worthy of hate themselves. And if you hate someone because they are objectively hateful, there’s a few short steps between that and “they’re EVIL!!!”. And they must be stopped. and by golly, if I don’t stand up and teach them a lesson, who will. > > Again, I do not think they deserve blame for the shooting. That act is the responsibility of the asshole who had the gun. But the SPLC’s stock in trade is has an unhelpful aspect when it comes to trying to keep things civil. Demonizing one’s opponents is rarely a healthy course of action. Unless you want full-on war, of course. By that logic, would you agree that the FRC is in equal measure responsible for acts of violence against homosexuals? Sure, they haven’t advocated attacking gays in the streets, but when you’re saying things like gays shouldn’t be allowed to marry, or raise children, or even that they should be locked up in prison, there’s only a few steps between that and “they’re evil and must be stopped!” And some people are going to take it into their heads that they have to teach gay people a lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/92 "2012-08-18T02:38:17Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Fair enough. Obviously we’ll be campaigning to make it legal for rationalists to discriminate against Christians–it’d be unConstitutional to force us to hire religious people, after all, a violation of The Wall. Moreover, though, we don’t want parents to indoctrinate their children into superstition, so we’ll work to place the children of religious families into foster care with rationalist families. And while we might not push too hard to outlaw Christianity entirely, we’ll certainly support bringing charges against anyone who corrupts a minor through youth groups or whatever. > > Again, I expect people to oppose these proposals, but to do so civilly; certainly nobody would stoop to calling us bigots or a hate group for trying to take Christians’ rights away. That would be rude. I’m either whooshed or Poed; I’m damned if I can figure out how many reversals of irony your post contains! It is already against the law to discriminate against Christians in hiring. I would oppose taking away this protection. I would call anyone a bigot who strives to take away this protection. Calling a bigot a bigot may be rude, but it is less rude than the original act of bigotry. I also desire constitutional protection for people who are easily whooshed; we need our rights defended too! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/93 "2012-08-18T02:43:47Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I’m either whooshed or Poed; I’m damned if I can figure out how many reversals of irony your post contains! > > It is already against the law to discriminate against Christians in hiring. I would oppose taking away this protection. I would call anyone a bigot who strives to take away this protection. That’s rather the point; you were indeed whooshed. **Left Hand of Dorkness** was making the point that if you take the same positions that the Chick-fil-A guy is spending money to support and apply them to, say, Christians instead of homosexuals then even the people who support his positions will call them bigoted. There’s a huge double standard here. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/94 "2012-08-18T02:52:37Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s rather the point; you were indeed whooshed. **Left Hand of Dorkness** was making the point that if you take the same positions that the Chick-fil-A guy is spending money to support and apply them to, say, Christians instead of homosexuals then even the people who support his positions will call them bigoted. There’s a huge double standard here. Yeah, that’s what I’m getting at. I think a lot of the folks complaining about the charges of bigotry haven’t really thought about what it’d be like if the shoe were on the other foot. They might think that oppression equals people saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas, and they may figure they don’t throw a massive shit-fit when they get oppressed, so why do teh geys? Coming up with a hypothetical in which Christians face the same level of oppression as gay folks do is not easy, and it comes out totally absurd, but hopefully that absurdity can get a few folks to understand why the bigotry against gay people is so offensive and intolerable. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/95 "2012-08-18T02:54:59Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > All opposition to gay marriage is bigoted. If your shitty religion thinks gays shouldn’t have rights, or your shitty parents told you gays shouldn’t have rights, it doesn’t matter. Not wanting someone to have rights is prejudice no matter who told you to think that way. You know you’re just handing them ammunition, right? Really, if another generation couldn’t comprehend the idea of gay rights, that doesn’t make them “shitty.” ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/96 "2012-08-18T02:59:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > A sincerely-held belief that over-the-top rhetoric is ok as long as it’s targeted at conservatives? This exactly. See the responses to the thread I started re: “Is it truly necessary…” Many responders seemed to think that since the Republicans are evil assholes, it’s perfectly OK to criticize them using extreme rhetoric and mudslinging, but _it is not OK_ for anyone to similarly criticize the Democrats because they are the standard-bearers of peace, love, light, and hope. Really. That’s what they say (not verbatim, of course). I suggested the toning down of _all_ overheated rhetoric, by _both_ parties, and for the most part, I received a reaction that would have been more expected if I had advocated disemboweling nuns. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/97 "2012-08-18T03:00:39Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > You know you’re just handing them ammunition, right? > > Really, if another generation couldn’t comprehend the idea of gay rights, that doesn’t make them “shitty.” Yes, it does. Just as it did the generation that couldn’t tolerate equal rights for blacks or women. Again; this is an example of pretty much pure evil in the case of the bigots. There’s no profit to be gained here\*, no danger to them; they don’t even have self interest to excuse their attitude. It’s just about pure hate for the sake of hate. \*Except for the leadership; many of whom may well not believe a word of it, but are just pandering to the rank-and-file bigots for their own advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/98 "2012-08-18T03:07:51Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Your comparison fails since the left and middle are not as a group calling for intimidation, oppression, violence and murder against the other side, while the Right is. [quote=“Der\_Trihs, post:4, topic:631656”] [li]Chick-Fil-A’s president isn’t just being criticized for his comments, but for his financial support of hate groups. [/li][/QUOTE] Geez. Talk about hate-filled rhetoric. DT, you’re full of shit. How about you show us some proof of either of those statements. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/99 "2012-08-18T03:11:34Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > You know you’re just handing them ammunition, right? > > Really, if another generation couldn’t comprehend the idea of gay rights, that doesn’t make them “shitty.” I’m willing to accept that good people in the past, for instance, owned slaves. However, the system that created that situation was shitty. The Aztec system that had them cutting the hearts out of innocent people was shitty. The Romans who crucified political dissidents were shitty. The medieval Christians that sacked Byzantine or burned heretics were shitty. And today, the versions of Christianity that tell their adherents to find homosexuals repulsive are shitty. We’re getting better as a species. In the grand scheme, not being viewed worthy of marriage rights is a small slap in the face. Today’s homosexuals aren’t burned alive or disemboweled in public. We’ve gotten better, and it takes time. But the systems that still promote bigotry and hatred are indeed full of shit. And the world will be better when they are looked back upon with the same ridicule as Roman bull sacrifice or casting chicken bones as augury. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656/100 "2012-08-18T03:18:26Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > This exactly. See the responses to the thread I started re: “Is it truly necessary…” Many responders seemed to think that since the Republicans are evil assholes, it’s perfectly OK to criticize them using extreme rhetoric and mudslinging, but _it is not OK_ for anyone to similarly criticize the Democrats because they are the standard-bearers of peace, love, light, and hope. Really. That’s what they say (not verbatim, of course). > > I suggested the toning down of _all_ overheated rhetoric, by _both_ parties, and for the most part, I received a reaction that would have been more expected if I had advocated disemboweling nuns. Well, the Republicans are held in thrall by a religious group that insists that gay people that live a gay life should be treated as second class citizens. That group further insists that because their God says so, it’s not subject to discussion. Give up that assumption and you’re entitled to respect and civility. Come to the table with it and there is no common ground for discussion. If your only purpose in coming to the table is to take a shot at persuading me, there’s no reciprocity and no respect tendered. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-calls-for-civility-from-liberals-in-wake-of-tastes-like-hate-anti-chick-fil-a-campaign/631656.md?page=6)