# Why no critical discussion on Brittney Griner's drug bust? {She's been released as of 2022-12-08} **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 27, 2022, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668 "2022-07-27T20:50:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/121 "2022-08-05T17:49:45Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Or do you feel like this about Griner because her “crime” was so minor? I feel this way because there is much doubt as to whether the crime actually occurred as described (if it occurred at all), and because it is obviously a cheap political attack on the U.S… This is Putin doing what he does best. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/122 "2022-08-05T17:56:55Z")
Plus even if she did what they claim, the verdict is much more than justified by the crime. (She’s been in jail for five months. That alone is more than enough time.) ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/123 "2022-08-05T21:48:12Z")
Then the question becomes to what extent will it help or hurt the reputation of the United States to bend over backwards to bring home a murderer. Also it would depend heavily on whether the person was arrested primarily because they murdered someone, or as in the case of Griner primarily to gain leverage over the United States. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/124 "2022-08-18T14:25:15Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > For folks who support this view and support the US government doing all it can to bring US citizens home, would you feel the same way if it wasn’t a bullshit charge like weed possession? (snip) > > Or do you feel like this about Griner because her “crime” was so minor? For those who automatically trust that Russia is treating Griner honestly and fairly, do you automatically trust authority in every situation? Or do you have different rules for certain people and certain charges? I mean, come on. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/125 "2022-08-18T21:34:45Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > For those who automatically trust that Russia is treating Griner honestly and fairly, do you automatically trust authority in every situation? Or do you have different rules for certain people and certain charges? My question wasn’t intended to focus on Russia. It was more of a question about the attitude that “the US should always do all it can to bring US citizens home”. Since we don’t trust Russia, what if a US citizen committed a crime in the UK or Germany? If we trust the systems there, should the US government still do all it can to bring those people home to the US? Or is it OK to let them serve their jail sentences in those countries? I think there’s two dimensions here 1. The severity of the crime 2. The trustworthiness of the country Does “the US should always do all it can to bring US citizens home” apply no matter what #1 and #2 are? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/126 "2022-08-18T23:31:27Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > I think there’s two dimensions here > > 1. The severity of the crime > 2. The trustworthiness of the country > > Does “the US should always do all it can to bring US citizens home” apply no matter what #1 and #2 are? If we have the diplomatic capital to do so, yes. There is no circumstance where we should say “this country will probably do a good job with this prosecution.” The US doesn’t even have a trustworthy justice system, so we should assume that every country is flawed, and probably flawed in a way that disadvantages Americans. Recognizing pragmatically that diplomatic capital is finite, we can’t save everyone, so the more interesting question is who gets to go first. And this is 100% a balancing act between what the government is willing to trade, and what its citizens are demanding to happen. I won’t deny that there’s something of a popularity contest here, but I would say this is the only controlling principle given that a foreign government’s accusations hold no weight whatsoever. Lifeboat ethics, we save whoever means most to us. I actually can see merit in the argument that it’s a bad trade to exchange a dangerous arms dealer for a basketball player. Ultimately I reject it, but it’s a legitimate conversation to have. Infinitely more legitimate than suggesting she deserves 9 years in Russian jail because that’s what you get for being careless. That’s just like Americans who watch a tape of a cop beating someone to death and saying “yeah, but what was he doing before they started recording.” American law enforcement doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt, and this is 100x more true for any foreign country, no matter how “like us” they are. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/127 "2022-08-18T23:57:32Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > I think there’s two dimensions here > > 1. The severity of the crime > 2. **The trustworthiness of the country** Bolding mine, this is a major difference and the whole point. Germany and the UK are not presently waging a war agaisnt a peaceful, non-threatening country. Nor are they trumping up minor charges against a US citizen with draconian sentencing. Russia not only hasn’t earned the benifit of the doubt here they are flaunting their ability to be abusive. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/128 "2022-08-19T10:17:39Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I actually can see merit in the argument that it’s a bad trade to exchange a dangerous arms dealer for a basketball player. Ultimately I reject it, but it’s a legitimate conversation to have. If it’s not a hijack, can you explain why you reject it? I think I agree, I’d just like to hear your reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/129 "2022-08-23T16:14:44Z")
We’re getting serious now: > **[Dennis Rodman says he is heading to Russia in push to release Brittney Griner](https://www.wavy.com/news/national/dennis-rodman-says-he-is-heading-to-russia-in-push-to-release-brittney-griner/)** > > Former NBA star Dennis Rodman reportedly said he is traveling to Russia to help secure the release of WNBA player Brittney Griner, who was recently sentenced to nine years in a Russian prison for p… If he pulls this off, I’m serious, man, give him the Nobel Peace Prize. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/130 "2022-08-23T16:17:10Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > If he pulls this off, I’m serious, man, give him the Nobel Peace Prize. _If_ he pulls it off, it will only happen because Putin is trying to embarrass and humiliate us and Rodman is playing along just to promote himself. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/131 "2022-08-23T17:07:20Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > If he pulls this off, I’m serious, man, give him the Nobel Peace Prize. And if instead of “pulling this off” he winds up arrested and in jail? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/132 "2022-08-23T17:21:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _If_ he pulls it off, it will only happen because Putin is trying to embarrass and humiliate us and Rodman is playing along just to promote himself. You know what? I’m ok with that. If it means Griner is safely back in the US at no real cost to us, give him his 15 minutes of dog and pony show and then let him be promptly forgotten again by modern America. No semi-intelligent person will be fooled and the ones taken in by Putin already parrot his propaganda verbatim and are a lost cause anyway. > [@kayaker](#): > > And if instead of “pulling this off” he winds up arrested and in jail? It would be a shame but in that case, he really would have brought it on himself. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/133 "2022-08-23T17:51:46Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > The trustworthiness of the country When someone hiking around Iran’s border gets arrested as a spy, do we actually believe he was a spy? My first assumption is “no”, that Iran grabbed the nearest American and faked the charges. Now of course, the hiker could actually be a spy, because that’s why spies do (skulk around innocently and claim they aren’t spies, nosireee), but innocent people do the same thing. Who do we trust? Not Iran, and not Putin. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/134 "2022-08-23T20:29:40Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > When someone hiking around Iran’s border gets arrested as a spy, do we actually believe he was a spy? My first assumption is “no”, that Iran grabbed the nearest American and faked the charges. My reaction is “possibly.” And if not, stupid enough that I don’t really care what happens to them. It is pretty easy to avoid being wrongfully arrested near Iran’s borders… ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/135 "2022-09-03T03:20:24Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > And if instead of “pulling this off” he winds up arrested and in jail? Then next, Kim Kardashian will head over to negotiate both their releases. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/136 "2022-09-03T15:56:42Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > It is pretty easy to avoid being wrongfully arrested near Iran’s borders… The US Navy made the same mistake that the hikers did: > **[2016 U.S.–Iran naval incident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_U.S.%E2%80%93Iran_naval_incident)** > > United States Navy > United States Coast Guard > USCGC Monomoy (WPB-1326) (Conducted Combat Search and Rescue efforts and escorted the RCBs once released) > IRGC Navy Personally I’m not a risk-taker. I’m not going to be hiking in Iraq, playing basketball in Russia, or bringing fruit into Canada. I could adopt the attitude that Americans that take risks above my threshold are stupid and I shouldn’t have to cover for them, but I don’t think that’s fair. We’re a big, messy country and the standard deviation on risk-tolerance is large. I like it that way. I benefit from Americans taking risks I wouldn’t. Three young people working in Iraqi-Kurdistan creates a richer population than if they hid out in the 'burbs. If I want those advantages, then I have to be willing to accept some mistakes and even some bad decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/137 "2022-09-03T16:14:09Z")
Not that most folks in this thread really need it, but the irony of having a separate thread about [how many Russian energy moguls](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-lukoil-chief-dies-in-fall-from-hospital-window-2022-09-01/970732) (and journalists and basically anybody else) have “accidental” deaths while some here in this thread are defending the idea of a largely trustworthy or impartial Russian legal system is hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/138 "2022-09-06T09:56:35Z")
They just don’t understand the **gravity** of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/139 "2022-09-06T18:46:56Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > some here in this thread are defending the idea of a largely trustworthy or impartial Russian legal system Has anyone in this thread said that the Russian legal system is trustworthy or impartial? Link? I would think that no one on the SDMB would be foolish enough to believe that. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668/140 "2022-09-07T00:48:09Z")
Any word on Rodman? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-critical-discussion-on-brittney-griners-drug-bust-shes-been-released-as-of-2022-12-08/968668.md?page=8)