# Why no hate speech allowed here? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 31, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250 "2006-12-31T22:50:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/21 "2007-01-01T02:31:01Z")
Why no hate speech allowed here? Because God doesn’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![Hogwash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e57/32.png) [@Hogwash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hogwash)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/22 "2007-01-01T02:45:00Z")
Because I deem hate speech to be outside of science. I don’t need any evidence, because evidence is a facet of science and does not apply. Therefore, hate speech is not allowed because I say so. You do not know what I have experienced, therefore you can not explain why hate speech is not allowed. God said that hate speech is forbidden. You can not disprove this, because God is in a special protective zone that removes all scrutiny. He is on another plane of existence, baby, and that is all there is to it. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/23 "2007-01-01T04:41:13Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] \ they just had a poster post a hate-filled, bigoted post which is being allowed to stand unchallenged, the poster unwarned. \ How do you decide what is actually hate speech, and what is simply an unpleasant opinion? Do you use that oh-so-useful rule, “I know it when I see it?” [/QUOTE] Are you considering the post you’re referring to on another message board as hate speech? Since you characterized it as hate-filled, I can only guess that you are. How did you come to that conclusion? What is _your_ definition of hate speech? (not a challenge, just a question) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/24 "2007-01-01T06:33:03Z")
I’m not eager to see it because it’s _lazy_. Gotten tired of the extended discussion on Middle East politics? Just call 'em a bunch of sand niggers and chortle at your cleverness. If that passes without repercussions, this board sinks immediately because the natural response to such a slur is to find something, anything, about the writer and slur him right back, all efforts at reasoned debate abandoned. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/25 "2007-01-01T08:21:56Z")
The distinction seems clear to me: Hate speech addresses what people _are_; non-hate speech addresses what people _do_. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/26 "2007-01-01T09:14:27Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] I’m not eager to see it because it’s _lazy_. Gotten tired of the extended discussion on Middle East politics? Just call 'em a bunch of sand niggers and chortle at your cleverness. If that passes without repercussions, this board sinks immediately because the natural response to such a slur is to find something, anything, about the writer and slur him right back, all efforts at reasoned debate abandoned. [/QUOTE] Agreed, summed it up very nicely ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/27 "2007-01-01T09:27:52Z")
[QUOTE=Heffalump and Roo] Are you considering the post you’re referring to on another message board as hate speech? Since you characterized it as hate-filled, I can only guess that you are. How did you come to that conclusion? What is _your_ definition of hate speech? (not a challenge, just a question) [/QUOTE] That’s an excellent question. The post I’m referring to seemed like hate speech to me because the poster was talking about how much he hates Muslims, calling them degrading names, and saying some of the things he likes to do to show his hatred of them (actually, he was somewhat hedging as he said all of these things as something he was making a resolution to not do next year - it seemed like a very thin smokescreen for posting his hatred, though). My own definition of hate speech - something said with intent to hurt, based on somebody’s race, religion, or other identifiable characteristic. If it was said to me as a member of the attacked group, it would hurt me; if it was said to someone I know as a member of that group, it would hurt them and me. How’s that? 😃 (Have I mentioned lately what a haven this board is, in the frightening wilds of the internet?) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/28 "2007-01-01T09:32:07Z")
[QUOTE=Giraffe] \the goal of the current hate speech rule is to allow for heated exchanges and insults while still maintaining some basic standard of decency. \ [/QUOTE] I think that’s a very good point to make. My problem with the other message board is that the response to what my gut is telling me is hate speech is for me to ignore that poster. That doesn’t seem like an answer to me at all. I firmly believe that all the contributors to a public message board set the tone, and a contributor like that is making a very poisonous contribution. It is nice and high-minded to want everyone to be free to express themselves as they wish, but some people will express themselves by painting their feces on the walls. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/29 "2007-01-01T13:36:54Z")
I’d like to add that we deliberately do NOT want to define terms, such as “hate-speech” or “jerk.” We’re not a government authority, trying to define a legal code. We have neither time nor staff nor inclination to draft up what would probably be a 500-page document trying to define “hate-speech.” We tend to think of “hate-speech” in relation to protected groups under US law – that is, based on race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, disability, gender, and age. These are basically things that one doesn’t have a choice about, one is born to (religion is probably an exception since there is some element of choice, but there you go.) And hate-speech is different from mere stereotyping (assigning some attributes to a whole group). We think of ourselves as being hosts at a private party or club. We don’t want to have to define good/bad behavior, we know it when we see it, and summon the bouncers. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/30 "2007-01-01T13:37:30Z")
[QUOTE=Thudlow Boink] The rule in question: > [@](#): > > **Originally Posted by Giraffe** > No hate speech > > If you say hateful, racist things, you may get warned or banned. Some racial slurs are likely to be viewed as hate speech when used as insults, some aren’t. No, we aren’t going to give you a list. Our goal is not to restrict any and all speech which could be viewed by someone as offensive, but simply keep a modicum of decency, even here.What exactly “hate speech” is, is not defined and is kept vague (probably deliberately), but it sounds like racist remarks either are, or are the best example of, what the rule has in mind. I can’t think of any situation in which an expression of hatred or contempt for a particular race or ethnic group would be a good, or even a neutral, thing for the Board, so I don’t have a problem with the rule as thus interpreted. [/QUOTE] This sure looks like a list to me. [QUOTE=TVeblen] We aren’t about to create a list of forbidden words. Look, different people are offended by different things but we aren’t going to play mommy here. Context and intent matter. Terms like “nigger”, “raghead”, “spic”, “kike”, etc. are plainly and simply intended as suckerpunches to the gut, nothing more. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=lissener] The distinction seems clear to me: Hate speech addresses what people are; non-hate speech addresses what people do. [/QUOTE] Then “white trash” is hate speech. Except that it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/31 "2007-01-01T14:38:49Z")
Anywhere in the world ,using any medium you can use hate speech at will without any sanctions…as long as it is directed at white ,middle class males. Then its freedom of speech. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/32 "2007-01-01T14:50:30Z")
[QUOTE=Lust4Life] Anywhere in the world ,using any medium you can use hate speech at will without any sanctions…as long as it is directed at white ,middle class males. Then its freedom of speech. [/QUOTE] Wow, your reasoning is even weaker than your punctuation. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/33 "2007-01-01T15:43:58Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Good post, Struan, but does religion count as an opinion or something that you don’t choose, like race? [QUOTE=Struan] That’s a question I’ve asked myself many times **featherlou** , and I don’t honestly know. I suspect there is an element of indoctrination, but I can’t say for sure because I don’t have terribly much experience with hardcore religious people. \ I’m not sure what I mean here frankly. Religion as cultural artifact, or freely chosen? [/QUOTE] No child is BORN Christian or Jewish or Muslim or Hindu or Taoist or Buddhist or Zoroastrian or Amish or… They are born _into families of those religions_, but they are not _automatically those religions_. Religion is a process of indoctrination and reinforcement, whether physical, mental, emotional or spiritual. A person raised in the loving arms of the KKK is not a white supremacist, but was raised by them. This person can become a Constitution-thumpin’, cat-lovin’, beer-hatin’ member of the Left-Wing Elitist Intelligecinistas. A person born in Kenya to Muslim parents but adopted shortly after birth by a Catholic missionary is very, very unlikely to be Muslim … even though that’s “how” he or she was born. Religion is, in the final analysis, as an ADULT, a choice. It may seem like it’s an EASY choice or a nearly IMPOSSIBLE choice, but it’s still a choice. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/34 "2007-01-01T17:49:23Z")
[QUOTE=Lust4Life] Anywhere in the world ,using any medium you can use hate speech at will without any sanctions…as long as it is directed at white ,middle class males. Then its freedom of speech. [/QUOTE] What I’m discovering is that people who wish to engage in hate speech of any type like to take refuge behind the concept of “freedom of speech.” The United States government seems to be having a very hard time putting the hammer down on people saying hateful things; they draw the line at people inciting other people with hateful speech. I am glad that this board isn’t taking that weak, ineffective route. If words themselves had no power, then Michael Richards didn’t do anything wrong. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/35 "2007-01-01T18:24:57Z")
[QUOTE=Lust4Life] Anywhere in the world ,using any medium you can use hate speech at will without any sanctions…as long as it is directed at white ,middle class males. Then its freedom of speech. [/QUOTE] Interestingly, as a white, middle class, middle aged, male, (and American, to boot), it seems to me that I find that people rushing forward to defend me from “abuse” seem to have, as a “secondary” motive, a need to abuse some other group. I’m tough; I can take it. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/36 "2007-01-01T18:38:14Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Interestingly, as a white, middle class, middle aged, male, (and American, to boot), it seems to me that I find that people rushing forward to defend me from “abuse” seem to have, as a “secondary” motive, a need to abuse some other group. I’m tough; I can take it. YMMV [/QUOTE] Rubbish, we know you cry like a baby every time someone says anything to you. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/37 "2007-01-01T18:40:07Z")
[QUOTE=Dr. Rieux] Wow, your reasoning is even weaker than your punctuation. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Wow! you come across as a total twat in nine words,I really must compliment you on your efficient use of the english language . I am desperately sorry for any potential trauma I may have caused you !I’m just thankful that you didn’t read post 4619 b where I used a colon instead of a semi colon in line six ,word three,I felt such a FOOL afterwards ! but I just HAD to show all my mates in the pub!We had SUCH a laugh! And then again in post 19767a I ,no you’ll laugh !oh all right then I ,sorry I’m laughing so much I cant type!!! I omitted two ,yeah two!!! commas IN THE SAME PARAGRAPH! Yeah I know ! I know ! Sorry chuckling while typing isn’t very efficient ,giggle ,giggle. So I take it you dont get out very much? Why dont you try getting a boyfriend/girlfriend (depending on your gender)? New experiences help you grow as a person and lets be honest for you the only way is UP! That is if doesn’t interfere with your banjo playing ,which I would Imagine takes up most of your time. But I digress,you attack the ethos of my posting but seem to be incredibly shy about putting forward ANY arguments ,let alone logical arguments that will give ANY degree of refutation ,and I wont waste my metaphorical breath on asking for a good argument . If its a case of you cant spell the words you want to say ,dont worry !spell them phonetically,I wont jump on you for it ! Why in post 269a I spelt …sorry for a future post perhaps! I REALLY am looking forward to hearing your thinking on the subject ,I love to learn from the master/mistress of logical debate. You really will be doing me a favour ,things are really quiet over here in England while we’re all waiting excitedly for this "new fangled " colour television(yeah right !I’ll believe it when I see it !) and so called “horseless carriages” Holding my breath in anticipation of your reply! ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/38 "2007-01-01T18:55:48Z")
A textbook example of [Psycholgical projection](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection). You must keep your team of therapists working overtime. You are the one who hasn’t put forward any argument–just ignorant, bigoted, knee-jerk, reactionary opinions. And, seriously, learn how to fucking type or at least, how to edit your posts before hitting “submit.” You come across like a petulant, untrained punk. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/39 "2007-01-01T18:57:26Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Interestingly, as a white, middle class, middle aged, male, (and American, to boot), it seems to me that I find that people rushing forward to defend me from “abuse” seem to have, as a “secondary” motive, a need to abuse some other group. I’m tough; I can take it. YMMV [/QUOTE] The white ,middle class,middle aged ,male bit I can take but AMERICAN !!Take a hike baby 🙂 I’m not particulary bothered by other groups slagging off my particular minority (Honkey ,hetro ,non poor males ),but the sheer gutless ,two faced hypocritism of them does wind me up. I DONT actually feel the need to slag off other groups as a whole except for maybe, ,no definitley,estate agents who are totally evil and probably all satanists And I must cleanse myself ,in a Cafe Society thread about actors “upstaging “each other I put forward Lee Marvin in” the Magnificent Seven”,you told me he wasn’t in it ,I thought immediatly it must have been the sequal,I now find it was James Coburn I was thinking of. In my defence my excuse is that I’m a thick cunt with probably no hint of redemtion. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250/40 "2007-01-01T19:03:28Z")
[QUOTE=Lust4Life] In my defence my excuse is that I’m a thick cunt with probably no hint of redemtion. [/QUOTE] Then go away and stop annoying us, please. We’re here to fight ignorance, not to enable it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-hate-speech-allowed-here/386250.md?page=3)