# why no more 1/4 ton pick ups? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 14, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424 "2018-04-14T20:18:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/61 "2018-04-16T05:59:35Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Because SUVs & minivans have taken their place – those can do much the same things, and others besides. > [@SmartAleq](#): > > Don’t forget the Ford Ranchero and the Subaru Brat. Aside from the Brat they were a little more engine than strictly necessary–the fuel economy aspect wouldn’t be there. From a cargo standpoint those things have a down side in that the bed isn’t a separate piece, it’s all a unibody. When you carry a good heavy load in a pickup truck having the bed able to flex separately from the cab helps distribute the load better and keeps undue stress off the frame. It would depend on if you need a car that can occasionally carry some shit or a truck that can be driven around like a car. Plus a more recent example to revive the Brat, the Subaru Baja (2003-2006). It failed pretty bad, and I never saw many on the roads, despite living in a place where every fourth car is a Subaru. I guess I don’t see many BRZ/86/FR-S on the road either, but they’re still making them. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/62 "2018-04-16T06:09:57Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > I think it might depend on the year they were made but I know at least a couple models of El Camino that were all one body piece, no separate bed. > > And I’m not ruling out Japanese cars, just looking at vehicles that have been readily for sale in the US and Subaru is all over and sell a lot of cars. A lot of the small pickups were thinly disguised imports anyway, Japanese trucks badged as American but definitely not from around here. That type of truck specifically is something we could use now. Thought we were talking about American production vehicles. Yeah, El Camino’s body tin and bed tin were integral… but I don’t think they were considered to be built upon a unibody frame. (I think) They were some variant of a box frame, such as the Chevy “A platform” etc. BTW: The separate bed and cab configuration on a pickup (unlike an El Camino) helps to relieve strain on the body tin, **not** the frame. The frames on American made pickups are essentially some variant of a solid box type frame, and benefit from the separation mentioned above. As the frame flexes under load, the body tin floats, preserving alignment of the tin. That is why unibody frames aren’t generally considered good truck frames. Under load, unibody framed body tin tends to distort more readily, due to a more intimate connection to load stresses, and not rebound as well as those on a “solid” frame with body tin isolation. (I think.) ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/63 "2018-04-16T06:13:44Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Plus a more recent example to revive the Brat, the Subaru Baja (2003-2006). #59 ? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/64 "2018-04-16T06:37:01Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > The frames on American made pickups are essentially some variant of a solid box type frame, **and** benefit from the separation mentioned above. As the frame flexes under load, the body tin floats, preserving alignment of the tin. That is why unibody frames aren’t generally considered good truck frames. Under load, unibody framed body tin tends to distort more readily, due to a more intimate connection to load stresses, and not rebound as well as those on a “solid” frame with body tin isolation. (I think.) Too late for edit: Bolding/underline for placement of deletion. Should read: **yet do not** benefit from… ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/65 "2018-04-16T06:43:18Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > #59 ? :rolleyes: Took to long to finish posting, and not sure how I quoted that first one. National origin is pretty meaningless, these days. Toyota is mostly made in the US (Tacoma is one of the few exceptions, being partially in Texas and part Mexico). And RAM is basically an Italian company now. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/66 "2018-04-16T06:59:20Z")
😕 ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/67 "2018-04-16T09:58:21Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > It’s such a bummer, too, because small trucks have a niche that’s being overfilled by half ton plus trucks. … The V6 is good for power, but it sure would be nice to get over 20mpg with it, and the towing capacity (2000 lb at the bumper, more with the receptacle hitch I had installed) is a bit of overkill. After posting earlier, I thought about this aspect. I’m pretty sure one of the main reasons for the appearance of small trucks back in the 80’s (S series, etc.) was fuel economy. The newer trucks are getting MPG numbers that I wouldn’t have believed twenty years ago. The Ram 1500\* I mentioned upthread routinely exceeded 20mpg highway, and 15-17 in town. My newer Ram 2500\*\* is getting 22-23 highway and 17-18 in town. This negates one of the main selling points of the small trucks, leaving only parking convenience as their advantage. \*2011 quadcab, shortbed, 5.7L, tow package \*\*2017 crewcab, longbed, turbo-diesel ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/68 "2018-04-16T10:33:51Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > Many good reasons given here as to why domestic manufacturers don’t produce (in the vernacular) 1/4 ton pickups. However, overseas production never ceased. > > The reason they are not available here isn’t because of un-achievable CAFE standards the US imposes (most of these little imports would meet or exceed the requirement), but rather because of the “chicken tax” as first mentioned by Bumbazine in post #6 above. A 25% tariff on imported compact trucks is still in effect… Once domestics dropped out of production, this tariff guaranteed the demise of the market for 1/4 ton pickups in the US. > > Everywhere else in the world they are still going strong! the “chicken tax” is a convenient excuse for some to complain about, but the simple reason these small trucks disappeared is that _people stopped buying them._ I mean, if they were so damn desirable, the automakers would just build them here the same way they do the Tundra, Tacoma, Frontier, Titan, and Ridgeline. All of which would be subject to the tariff if imported. the reality is a that a small, two-seat vehicle is very, very niche in this country and not worth anyone’s time or resources to pursue. Whining about an irrelevant tariff is not going to change that. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/69 "2018-04-16T13:58:29Z")
The observation that the chicken tax helped kill off the tiny truck market in the US, and continues to be a disincentive for any resurgence to this day, is just a statement of fact. I don’t think this qualifies as whining. As you point out, markets change and buyer’s tastes evolve… These days there isn’t much demand for such trucks in the US, irrespective of the chicken tax. However, it cannot be denied that this tax (tariff) is a nail in the coffin of the compact truck market. I’d still snap one up if they became available.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/70 "2018-04-16T15:05:01Z")
Well, they’re alive and well as [Technicals.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_(vehicle)) Maybe we can make some and donate them to our “rebel” allies in Syria…or whatever they are. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/71 "2018-04-16T15:21:19Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > Thought we were talking about American production vehicles. No, trucks _for sale_ in America. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/72 "2018-04-16T15:23:02Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > the “chicken tax” is a convenient excuse for some to complain about, but the simple reason these small trucks disappeared is that _people stopped buying them._ I mean, if they were so damn desirable, the automakers would just build them here the same way they do the Tundra, Tacoma, Frontier, Titan, and Ridgeline. All of which would be subject to the tariff if imported. > > the reality is a that a small, two-seat vehicle is very, very niche in this country and not worth anyone’s time or resources to pursue. Whining about an irrelevant tariff is not going to change that. They were\* everywhere,\* and purchased eagerly by young men and by gardeners, etc. So now you have to explain why they stopped being so popular. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/73 "2018-04-16T16:01:11Z")
I’m guessing the auto companies just reasoned that they could make more money by upcharging people for larger trucks. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/74 "2018-04-16T16:05:07Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > I’m guessing the auto companies just reasoned that they could make more money by upcharging people for larger trucks. Probably this. And, as several people have noted, trucks (and cars, as well) have generally become more upscale, with more features, even on the “entry level” models. That said, I don’t know how much of it is the chicken (i.e., fewer people wanted to buy small, basic trucks) or the egg (i.e., fewer such trucks were offered), but as has been noted, the CAFE rules apparently created a disincentive for automakers to sell a lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/75 "2018-04-16T17:51:12Z")
Let’s not forget the Dodge Rampage and Plymouth Scamp pickups. True 1/4 ton pickups with front wheel drive. I had a Rampage years ago, it was fantastic in the snow. Volkswagen also had the mini pickup years ago too. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/76 "2018-04-16T20:07:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by gogogophers > Thought we were talking about American production vehicles. > [@DrDeth](#): > > No, trucks _for sale_ in America. My comment above was in regards to a slight hijack of your original question, re: #55, #57, and #59 in which the reference was to American _made_ autos. Sorry for the derailment, back on track now. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/77 "2018-04-16T20:26:51Z")
As I understand the chicken tax, it applies to imported trucks with no rear seats. The jump seats in the Brat got around the tax that way. Currently, Ford Transit vans are all imported with back seats for the same reason, whether they’re sold that way or not. Japanese trucks used to be sent here partially assembled so they could be put together in the U.S. Also, all El Caminos (except '59 and '60) were built on Chevelle, or later, Malibu frames. Rancheros were based on the unit-bodied Falcon for a while. GM planned to start importing the Holden ute but the bankruptcy restructuring did away with that idea. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/78 "2018-04-16T20:28:52Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Because the vast majority of pickup drivers don’t need (or use) the cargo feature - the vehicle is simply a compensation for male inadequacies elsewhere. Having a small truck would defeat the purpose of driving one. Adequately addressed by **Drunky Smurf**. That said, my job has usually allowed me to own better rides than the 1990 Nissan 2WD, and the 1983 Corolla that followed it (in 2003). Folks would occasionally ask me why I didn’t get something newer & nicer. I just told them I was compensating for my penis. And yes, I drive a 2016 BRZ for the same reason. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/79 "2018-04-16T21:05:36Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > the “chicken tax” is a convenient excuse for some to complain about … but the simple reason these small trucks disappeared is that people stopped buying them. I mean, if they were so damn desirable, the automakers would just build them here… A niche market may be big enough to justify import, but not big enough to justify domestic production. Because of economy of scale. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424/80 "2018-04-16T23:22:25Z")
scr4 I read and re-read your link to the CAFE standards, pondered their graphs, and attempted to get a handle on their opinions… I think some of their conclusions are subjective, re: the sentiment that CAFE solely killed the small truck, exclusive of the chicken tariff. Why could it not be both? (Along with the previously mentioned evolution {BIGGER is BETTER} in consumer demand, too). From the charts however, it is obvious that the smaller footprint vehicles are definitely held to tougher CAFE standards. **HOWEVER** , they seem to contradict themselves with the statement: “Chrysler is rumored to be… exploring a car-based compact pickup, possibly based off of a Fiat product. A truck like that would be a \*\*huge boon as far as CAFE compliance goes…” \*\* WTF? Though I may not necessarily agree with all their conclusions, the article is certainly an eye-opener into CAFE standards… A sort of 101 primer in the art of finagling categories of vehicles and number crunching statistics, in order to achieve the desired CAFE outcome. Thank you for the link!🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-more-1-4-ton-pick-ups/812424.md?page=5)