# Why No New Sects in Atheism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 25, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769 "2003-01-25T00:55:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/21 "2003-01-25T04:19:50Z")
_I_ believe in you, **RM Mentock**. At least, I _think_ I do. Well… Ya know, come to think of it, I can’t prove that you’re anything more than a bot. Crap! I’m losing faith! Give me a sign. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/22 "2003-01-25T04:32:51Z")
The main point has already been well made; there is no belief set, from which atheists might construct subsets, greater than the single belief in the absence of a greater intelligence. And that is not a unifying thought that would allow subsets (sects) to coalesce. I’m sure there have been others, but the only attempt at organization of atheists that I recall was Madalyn Murray O’Hair’s American Atheist Organization, which I perceived to be way too flaky to have anything to do with. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/23 "2003-01-25T05:18:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Some Guy \* > \*\*Because Agnosticism is the positive assertion that the question “Are there any gods?” is unanswerable. It has nothing whatsoever to do with doubt or uncertainty, except for the obvious statistical truth that a very large number of people use it to refer to such things, incorrectly. \*\* What you’re describing is sometimes called strong agnosticism, as opposed to the weak agnosticism that **x-ray vision** described. ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/24 "2003-01-25T05:23:41Z")
New sects in Atheism? I am not sure whether you are simply misguided or intentionally flamebaiting. ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/25 "2003-01-25T05:25:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Some Guy \* > Because Agnosticism is the positive assertion that the question “Are there any gods?” is unanswerable. And I still have to see a formal proof of that, **Some Guy** ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/26 "2003-01-25T05:38:56Z")
[http://azaz.essortment.com/agnosticdefinit\_rmak.htm](http://azaz.essortment.com/agnosticdefinit_rmak.htm) Boo, and yah, Urban Ranger. Incidentally, one can claim that there may be a God, but one has no opinion on the matter, putting one out of both atheist and agnostic camps. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/27 "2003-01-25T06:56:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by keithmac \* > \*\*Interesting … > > Would there be a name for a belief that some being created the Universe (possibly for a purpose) but that being no longer exists? > > Cheers, Keithy \*\* Yes, there is/was. It goes by the name **God is Dead** and I believe it was back in the '70’s when it was repopularized. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/28 "2003-01-25T07:08:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jinx \* > \*\*Kniz, I ask in all seriousness. People either believe, or don’t believe. Why? Why don’t we ever think that the Bible stories are certainly all true, but now God is simply tired of dealing with us. But, instead of Him destroying us, he’d rather we just slowly destroy each other. - Jinx \*\* Your reply is better than my post deserved, but I swear I was not trying to be cute. However, since you are serious about this I will give you my two cents worth. I don’t believe that atheists will ever form into sects and start taking up collections. However, to me there are two types of atheist [ul][li] don’t believe in God, but are open to the idea that other people do. These are **liberal atheists**.[/li][li] don’t believe in God and want to convert everyone to their belief. These are **fundamentalist atheists**.[/ul][/li]😃 [sup]That’s just the way I see it.[/sup] ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/29 "2003-01-25T08:10:27Z")
A belief a god that doesn’t care is still a belief in a god, and thus neither atheism or agnosticsm. Theism is a belief in god, period. He can care, not care, be kind, be evil, be all powerful, be weak and submissive, be many, be one, be dead, all are still theism. And there are people that believe what you proposed in the OP (I forgot the name of them but I learned about the belief in Anthropology). ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/30 "2003-01-25T14:56:41Z")
> [@](#): > > ## _originally posted by_ **Some Guy** quote: > > ## Originally posted by x-ray vision Why the wrong one Some Guy? > > Because Agnosticism is the positive assertion that the question “Are there any gods?” is unanswerable. It has nothing whatsoever to do with doubt or uncertainty, except for the obvious statistical truth that a very large number of people use it to refer to such things, incorrectly. You can’t say people are using it to refer to things incorrectly when dictionary definitions of atheism include the definition I gave. Like many words in English, atheism has more than one definition. ---
**Author:** ![Cooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Cooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cooper)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/31 "2003-01-25T16:16:22Z")
Some people do pay attention to the distinctions and make labels for themselves, but most don’t. For information about these labels: [http://www.flashback.se/archive/atheism\_faq.html](http://www.flashback.se/archive/atheism_faq.html) Many atheists go to church/temple/mosque and if asked will identify themselves as whatever religion they were raised in or maybe what is prevalent in their country. This doesn’t just happen in religious states but is also quite common in the U.S. How common is difficult to say because its very time consuming to find this out about someone…usually I’ve had to know someone pretty well before they will admit they don’t believe in their religion (not that I ever ask, it just comes out after awhile). ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/32 "2003-01-25T17:58:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robertliguori \* > Boo, and yah, Urban Ranger. That’s not a proof, not even an argument. ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/33 "2003-01-25T21:35:21Z")
Atheism and agnosticism, at least for me, is not only the discarding of the concept of God, but also the throwing off of the mantle of organized religion. Not only did I never have faith, I never liked sitting in synagogue. If I wanted something like organized religion, there are certainly outlets – there are organizations for humanistic Judaism, there is the UU movement. But when I decided not to call myself an atheist, it also meant that I wasn’t going to practice anything resembling worship. I became atheist because I did not like the adoption of an unquestioned belief system. Congregating with others who share my beliefs on the universe will only serve to protect and insulate my beliefs. Eventually, they may form an unquestioned belief system, and we are back to organized religion. Also, to **Hari Seldon** ’s hijack: > [@](#): > > Just for the record and I didn’t make this up, the first commandment is that thou shalt have no god before me. It does not deny that other gods exist, only you gotta choose Yahweh first. Not that I care much one way or the other, but I don’t see where monotheism follows. The Jewish affirmation of faith is “Hear O Israel, the Lord is God, the Lord is One.” The Jewish God (Adonai) is seen as God – the First Commandment begins “I (Adonai) am God” and all else is irrelevant, as God is One. IMHO Judaism is incredibly monotheistic – one must choose death over idolatry. Even the idea of Satan and the angels are far different than what we get from mainstream Christianity, and in fact many observant Jews argue the Trinity as idolatry. Just from what I remember. There are others here more qualified to answer, but if you really want to know, you should probably start a GD thread about it. ---
**Author:** ![Skeptico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@Skeptico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skeptico)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/34 "2003-01-25T21:57:57Z")
\*\* > [@](#): > > Why No New Sects in Atheism? That’s easy. Because Atheism is not a religion.\*\* _a_ = latin prefix for “lack of”, “in the absence of” _theism_ = belief in the existence of god or gods (Science is not a religion either.) ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/35 "2003-01-25T22:38:19Z")
I don’t know, though… there are several reasons people are atheists. It seems plausible that these reasons are such that people who have them also have others that dictate how people should interact with each other, and so on. I don’t find it implausible that there could be distinct atheist groups. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/36 "2003-01-25T23:10:27Z")
**erislover** the thing is that atheists tend not to search each other out or try to have gatherings in an organised fashion. Many (most?) atheists just don’t care one way or the other about God or the question of his existance. It’s a bit like the way people who aren’t into Roll Playing Games don’t go around specifically having meetings where they can not partake in Roll Playing Games. Oh and implausable or not, as far as I’m aware there are no distinct atheist groups. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/37 "2003-01-25T23:45:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Urban Ranger \* > \*\*That’s not a proof, not even an argument. \*\* The point **robertliguori** is making is that agnosticism as a philosophy descends from Huxley, thus it is defined in the way Huxley definde it, not in the way that large numbers of people have misapprehended Huxley’s definition. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by x-ray vision \* > \*\*You can’t say people are using it to refer to things incorrectly when dictionary definitions of atheism include the definition I gave. Like many words in English, atheism has more than one definition. \*\* It does; however, I was not discussing atheism, but agnosticism. Please see above. I would also note that, while dictionaries are great for explaining the definitions of concrete things, they fail miserably at defining philosophies or classes of ideas, since they tend to report all of the common usages, even the incorrect ones. This is hardly limited to agnosticism or even to metaphysical teory in general; try looking up your favorite (or least favorite!) political theory for another example of the same - the best part being that it works for any given ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/38 "2003-01-26T00:28:02Z")
The Ethical Society is sort of like a church for atheists. At least, that was the impression I got the way my ex-wife’s parents used to attend every Sunday morning. It seemed to me that they organized it that way deliberately, to replace the social function of Sunday morning church attendance. My ex thought it was amusing the opposite ways people reject organized religion: here her parents chose the organization without the religion, while we preferred religion without the organization (beatnik pothead freeblowing mystics). Once the Ethical Society had set up an organized “church” of atheism, if there were another such organization, they could conceivably bicker over the best way to organize atheist “churches.” As for the Stalin-Trotsky split … whoo boy ---
**Author:** ![raisinbread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8491ac/32.png) [@raisinbread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raisinbread)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/39 "2003-01-26T02:10:33Z")
Have you tried thinking about the fact that maybe God doesn’t want anything to do with you? If the universe was created (rather than already existing or coming into being through some incongruous and Hollywoodesque event billions of years ago) maybe the creater decided to see if he could make something better rather than dwelling on something he did a bunch of years ago back in God College while taking some course requirement. Maybe these disenfranchised believers need to realize that they have to learn to love themselves and learn to live with themselves, become their own god rather than relying on some external entity to fill that void in their empty, empty lives. One would have to learn acceptance and move on. Hell, if one is that pathological and can not learn to live without God then they should realize that there are plenty of other gods out there who want to meet you! Meet Ganesha, 3400/Male/India, loves milk, dancing and thinks blue skin is a turn on. If you are interested then send us ten dollars to Lonely Non-Semitic Gods and receive one of our lovely catalogs who are full of marriage minded divine beings from bodhisattvas to devas to sensual seraphim plus if you order now receive as a FREE GIFT this set of Ginsu knives guaranteed to cut through any material known to man and maybe a few others that have yet to be discovered. It silces, it dices, it crawls on its belly like a reptile, come one and come all to experience and stand in awe of one of the Orient’s greatest mysteries known only as “The Egress” in western tongues which are curious tongues at that. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769/40 "2003-01-26T07:23:14Z")
I believe Deism was Voltaire’s belief system. It’s sometimes called the “clockmaker theory.” God makes universe, ‘winds it up,’ then sits back and watches it run. I think it fits the OP perfectly. Of course, I might be thinking of something else entirely, but if I am, it still fits the OP. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-new-sects-in-atheism/150769.md?page=3)