# Why no one cares about global warming. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 23, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337 "2015-04-23T04:05:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/41 "2015-04-23T23:24:01Z")
> [@](#): > > …as a child I helped Jim Inhofe get into Congress. For that, I am very, very sorry. Shit, I went door to door for Barry Goldwater! Brat, living on a SAC base, not exactly a tough sell, but still… Had some benefits. “Where you going, honey?” “Got a date with\*\* 'luci\*\*, Daddy.” “That nice young man who was working for Goldwater? Fuck his ears off, dear, and have a nice time!” “Thanks, Daddy, bye!” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/42 "2015-04-23T23:37:03Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I’ll know that the Left REALLY takes global warming seriously and thinks it’s an existential threat when I see them link arms and get behind a massive push for building a boatload and a half of nuclear power plants (NEW nuclear power plants) in the US and throughout Europe. At that point, if the Right doesn’t respond with something then I’ll feel that the Left (or at least the Democrats in the US) is justified in calling them out because they will have made a real sacrifice in attempting to address this global issue. Or, conversely, if the Right (or the Republicans in the US) unite behind a platform of seriously addressing the deniers in their midst AND some sort of carbon tax or increase in taxes impacting the price of gas at the pump/barrel (which I think could also have a real, measurable impact on CO2 emissions in the US…the Europeans already do this, though interestingly it doesn’t seem to have lowered their emissions wrt the US by all that much). Until then, from my perspective, it’s pot and kettle deciding who has the grimier butt… I have pointed this out several times before, but clearly some media (actually almost all of it) has not reported on it: Democrats are open to nuclear as part of clean energy legislation, but as usual you can count with the Republicans to stall bills like that. Because it will inconvenience the groups that did help them be elected. > **[Clean Energy Standard Act of 2012 Introduced - OurEnergyPolicy](https://www.ourenergypolicy.org/clean-energy-standard-act-of-2012-introduced/)** > > Senate Energy & Natural Resources Chairman Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) has introduced the Clean Energy Standard Act of 2012, which would require electric utilities to derive increasing percentages of their supply mix from low-CO2 sources. The bill would... > [@](#): > > Sources eligible under the legislation include: renewables, such as wind and solar, “qualified” renewable biomass and waste-to-energy, hydropower, natural gas, and **nuclear**. Facilities with CO2 capture and storage, and some combined heat and power facilities, are also eligible. The bill establishes a market-based credit trading scheme, within which utilities could purchase compliance credits from other utilities. > [@](#): > > **The Act was introduced with no Republican support.** Senator Lisa Murkowski (R-AK), the top Republican on the Energy & Natural Resources Committee has said that she will “only get behind such a standard if it replaces federal climate regulations.” [The Hill] And “replace” is in this case just code for “we do not want to have any regulations” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/43 "2015-04-23T23:45:38Z")
Ran out of edit time: As I pointed before, one of the big problems IMHO is that a lot of moderate Republican and independents continue to be unaware of what their Representatives are doing in their behalf. As Jefferson did worry, ignorance is prevailing (thanks to powerful groups) and we have less informed voters nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/44 "2015-04-24T01:26:45Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Democrats are open to nuclear as part of clean energy legislation, but as usual you can count with the Republicans to stall bills like that. Because it will inconvenience the groups that did help them be elected. I’m usually with you on these matters but disagree with this statement. It was [Obama who shut down Yucca Mountain](http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2011/05/10/10greenwire-gao-death-of-yucca-mountain-caused-by-politica-36298.html?pagewanted=all), after all. There are certainly Republicans who are against NP but the biggest opposition comes from the left, especially the far left. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/45 "2015-04-24T01:48:47Z")
Just because no one in that poll names global warming as the _most_ important problem, does not mean that no one cares about it. In [fact](http://www.gallup.com/poll/168236/americans-show-low-levels-concern-global-warming.aspx), “[a] little more than a third say they worry “a great deal” about climate change or about global warming, putting these concerns at the bottom of a list of eight environmental issues.” A quote, might I add, from the same source for ITR’s link. Should the thread be closed now? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/46 "2015-04-24T02:00:20Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I’m usually with you on these matters but disagree with this statement. It was [Obama who shut down Yucca Mountain](http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2011/05/10/10greenwire-gao-death-of-yucca-mountain-caused-by-politica-36298.html?pagewanted=all), after all. There are certainly Republicans who are against NP but the biggest opposition comes from the left, especially the far left. And I have criticized that move too in the past, but it does not take away what I said about nuclear power, the new plants are still under construction and Republicans are willing to toss out nuclear power when when bills include it as a part of an all encompassing solution. After all, why they should worry when they have been told by the scientists in the fossil fuel payroll that nothing will happen? ---
**Author:** ![Salvor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Salvor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salvor)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/47 "2015-04-24T19:10:00Z")
Uncertainty. This is something categorically denied by the likes of those like Bill McKibben and others beating the climate change catastrophist drum. There is far more uncertainty in the actual degree and severity of climate change 25/50/100 years out. People always trot out the more useless fact that well over 90% of scientists agree that global warming is real. And? The danger of being in a plane crash is real, but how likely are the worst case scenarios to occur? Is there consensus on sea level rise that breaks 90%? Is there consensus that breaks 90% on ocean acidification levels? On temperature levels in the non linear chaotic weather system? No, there is nothing CLOSE to a consensus on the degree and severity of those problems, but you would not know listening to the climate catastrophist. This is nothing more than neomalthusianism. The green movement rebuked the notion that mass starvation (due to capacity to feed issues not distribution issues) would occur, so all those nihilists who filled themselves with doom like predictions had to switch to a more plausible candidate. Climate change. But climate change has been occurring for the ENTIRE life of the planet, there is no such thing as a steady state climate. But to listen to some environmentalist, they seem to treat our current slice of climate, a tiny sliver of existence in the life age of the earth as a SACRED epoch that must not be perturbed by the actions of man. With respect, wtf is this? Religion? There is nothing sacred about our current climate. NOTHING. I am not going apesh\*t over climate change. That is not to say I don’t think it can or will cause problems, but I have far more faith in modern human civilization to solve most if not all of those problems. We have the most developed brains on the planet, and thousands of years of human civilization has granted us something that no other species or proto human has ever had. Science. We have the accumulated knowledge of the ages. Even with far more limited levels of that human populations struggled and survived ice ages and other environmental stresses. Today we live in wildly varying climates. But if the environment rapidly changes for the worst, we are in a better position to adapt and avoid civilization ending consequences than any other species on the earth. I believe this because I am not a nihilist, not pessimist about life itself. I actually believe in an impossible radical idea among the environmental left. That we can actually… adapt. que the no we can’t !!! The changes will be too fast and mass starvation and death, sea rises that will swallow people and cities whole. If you believe that, it has more to do with your own psyche and death cultist like expectations of our abilities to adapt than anything else. Because you damn sure do NOT have VAST numbers of scientists that agree on the WORST most over the top predictions of doom and gloom related to climate change. THAT is why I don’t care about global warming in the way that alarmists care. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/48 "2015-04-24T19:15:03Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > If Ultron instead sought to derail a trade agreement, the movie would be less successful. I’m not sure if existence of the Phantom Menace proves or disproves this point. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/49 "2015-04-24T19:29:07Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And I have criticized that move too in the past, but it does not take away what I said about nuclear power, the new plants are still under construction and Republicans are willing to toss out nuclear power when when bills include it as a part of an all encompassing solution. Democrats toss out nuclear power regardless of the other contents of the bill. Conservatives are the main blocking point with AGW but you’re too willing to demonize them for everything, even when they are on your side (regarding NP). Right now the Democrats are a bigger blocking point for NP. Obama has labeled AGW a serious threat; has he done _anything_ to foster NP? > [@GIGObuster](#): > > After all, why they should worry when they have been told by the scientists in the fossil fuel payroll that nothing will happen? And yet the Democrats believe the scientists on AGW and regard it as a serious problem but ignore a viable solution (NP). I get frustrated with both sides. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/50 "2015-04-24T21:29:19Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > In the latest Avengers movie, arch-baddie Ultron aims to wipe out humanity. If Ultron instead sought to derail a trade agreement, the movie would be less successful. This just made me want to think of a counter example. Quantum of Solace’s box office was $586 million and the bad guy’s plot was monopolizing water rights in Bolivia. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/51 "2015-04-24T21:32:22Z")
Just lately, _Justified_ had a plot centering around the bad guy figuring on pot being legalized, so he wanted to buy up all the good pot growing land in Kentucky. Da fuq? Spoiler: everybody gets shot. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/52 "2015-04-24T22:09:13Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Democrats toss out nuclear power regardless of the other contents of the bill. Conservatives are the main blocking point with AGW but you’re too willing to demonize them for everything, even when they are on your side (regarding NP). Right now the Democrats are a bigger blocking point for NP. Obama has labeled AGW a serious threat; has he done _anything_ to foster NP? As pointed before the nuclear power plants are still under construction, the Obama administration has supported them with loan guarantees because the dynamics of the energy market haven’t made new reactors a good deal for energy producers. > **[Obama says he supported the first new nuclear power plant in three decades](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2012/mar/02/barack-obama/obama-says-he-supported-first-nuclear-power-plant-/)** > > Countering Republican attacks on gas prices, President Barack Obama gave a hard-hitting speech on energy policy in Miami > [@Deeg](#): > > And yet the Democrats believe the scientists on AGW and regard it as a serious problem but ignore a viable solution (NP). I get frustrated with both sides. As pointed before this is just ignorance, many Democratic leaders do support nuclear power and I do over here in Arizona, you need to be frustrated with the market that because of Gas prices and other factors is not much enthusiastic about it. So once again your complaint is really silly, the Republicans are the ones that are willing to toss out nuclear power when is part of the overall solution. And once again you are ignoring the point that was made, Republicans do think they should worry about the issue at hand because they have been told by the scientists in the fossil fuel payroll that nothing will happen. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/53 "2015-04-24T22:24:38Z")
> [@Salvor](#): > > Uncertainty. Uncertainty is not your friend. > **[With climate change, uncertainty is no-one’s friend](https://simpleclimate.wordpress.com/2014/08/02/with-climate-change-uncertainty-is-no-ones-friend/)** > > Heard people say climate science is uncertain? Research by psychologist Stephan Lewandowsky from the University of Bristol and his colleagues finds this would be more, not less, reason to fight glo… > [@](#): > > The researchers have found that greater uncertainty over how much Earth warms in response to our CO2 emissions would actually raise forecasts of average damage costs from climate change. Greater uncertainty also means projections see it as more likely that steps to cut emissions won’t keep the world below warming levels governments have agreed we must avoid. So, if we are unsure whether we can slow the climate juggernaut down before we smash into the wall, we’re better off hitting the brakes earlier. As Stephan explained, ‘uncertainty is no one’s friend’. > [@Salvor](#): > > People always trot out the more useless fact that well over 90% of scientists agree that global warming is real. And? That the scientists (as expressed by the IPPCC report that is based on the most analysed and reviewed current published science) do mention that: > [@](#): > > Put it all together, and the IPCC is 95 percent confident that humans have caused most of the observed global surface warming over the past 60 years. Their best estimate is that humans have caused 100 percent of that global warming. And: The already confirmed acceleration with the loss of cap ice (including glaciers) shows that in general the fake skeptics out there **did lie** to you and many others when they did (and continue to) claim in their sites that all the ice constantly is recuperating and that we should not worry about weather changes in the mid latitudes or an accelerated rise of the oceans. In reality we should worry. > **[Cohenetal\_NGeo14.pdf](https://epic.awi.de/id/eprint/36132/1/Cohenetal_NGeo14.pdf)** > > 3.46 MB > **[Are the Effects of Global Warming Really that Bad?](https://www.nrdc.org/stories/are-effects-global-warming-really-bad)** > > Short answer: Yes. Even a seemingly slight average temperature rise is enough to cause a dramatic transformation of our planet. Again, this observed results are just a few of the items that were predicted to happen by increasing the CO2 in the atmosphere, there are still other issues that are also likely to take place, so I really do not think that we should listen to people that are only interested in manufacturing doubt about this issue. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/54 "2015-04-24T23:47:00Z")
Correcting post #52: And once again you are ignoring the point that was made, Republicans \*\*don’t \*\ ***think that** they should worry about the issue at hand because they have been told by the scientists in the fossil fuel payroll that nothing will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/55 "2015-04-25T00:19:03Z")
I’ve yet to see a proposed fix that isn’t absolutely devastating to the American lifestyle. Until there’s a solution that doesn’t involve us shivering in a 50 degree, one bedroom flat above a liquor store, huddling under a single flickering compact fluorescent and taking a stinking, low class bus to our job, I just don’t want to hear about the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/56 "2015-04-25T01:15:40Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > I’ve yet to see a proposed fix that isn’t absolutely devastating to the American lifestyle. Until there’s a solution that doesn’t involve us shivering in a 50 degree, one bedroom flat above a liquor store, huddling under a single flickering compact fluorescent and taking a stinking, low class bus to our job, I just don’t want to hear about the problem. Hey, as long as you’re keeping an open mind about it. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/57 "2015-04-25T01:20:42Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Anyone who disputes the climate change model at this point is either in the possession of some new evidence not presented that somehow manages to overturn the entire theory (extremely unlikely), ignorant of the science, or in denial of the science. There is no fourth option, and that first option is about as likely as a silver bullet capable of overturning the theory that the earth is not flat. Call it name-calling all you want, the fact of the matter is that most people don’t understand the science or the evidence behind it. It’s refreshing to hear the model is so accurate. So what year will all of these terrors start occurring? The model knows, right? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/58 "2015-04-25T03:07:38Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > It’s refreshing to hear the model is so accurate. So what year will all of these terrors start occurring? The model knows, right? Oh dear, (as Peter Haadfield says) you clearly are not aware that models are not what is driving the science, models are just one tool climate scientists use. (The evidence for climate change WITHOUT computer models or the IPCC) And what it is clear is that a lot of contrarian sites and denier sources lied (and continue to lie) when they told us that the ice in glaciers and the poles was not melting (it will recover… trust them :rolleyes:). And that ocean rise was not going to be a problem. > **[Time-lapse proof of extreme ice loss](https://www.ted.com/talks/james_balog_time_lapse_proof_of_extreme_ice_loss)** > > Photographer James Balog shares new image sequences from the Extreme Ice Survey, a network of time-lapse cameras recording glaciers receding at an alarming rate, some of the most vivid evidence yet of climate change. > [@](#): > > Photographer James Balog shares new image sequences from the Extreme Ice Survey, a network of time-lapse cameras recording glaciers receding at an alarming rate, some of the most vivid evidence yet of climate change. [http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2015/04/23/lomborg-in-oz/](http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2015/04/23/lomborg-in-oz/) (Link with image of ocean rise measurements showing how Lomborg was wrong about using just a few years in 2008 to claim that the sea level was not increasing.) ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/59 "2015-04-25T03:26:27Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Oh dear, (as Peter Haadfield says) you clearly are not aware that models are not what is driving the science, models are just one tool climate scientists use. > > (The evidence for climate change WITHOUT computer models or the IPCC) > > And what it is clear is that a lot of contrarian sites and denier sources lied (and continue to lie) when they told us that the ice in glaciers and the poles was not melting (it will recover… trust them :rolleyes:). And that ocean rise was not going to be a problem. > > [James Balog: Time-lapse proof of extreme ice loss | TED Talk](http://www.ted.com/talks/james_balog_time_lapse_proof_of_extreme_ice_loss?language=en) > [http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2015/04/23/lomborg-in-oz/](http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2015/04/23/lomborg-in-oz/) > (Link with image of ocean rise measurements showing how Lomborg was wrong about using just a few years in 2008 to claim that the sea level was not increasing.) Oh, I see. So now it’s, “Nevermind about the model, there’s just oodles of evidence over _there_. Click these links and get distracted somewhere else.” Um, no thanks. Just tell me when the sky is gonna fall. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337/60 "2015-04-25T03:36:06Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Oh, I see. So now it’s, “Nevermind about the model, there’s just oodles of evidence over _there_. Click these links and get distracted somewhere else.” > > Um, no thanks. Just tell me when the sky is gonna fall. Check the links, you are too late, but as usual you miss that while we can minimise the bad effects now, unfortunately we have many in government that want to make sure we do not even do that and to make the situation worse. Currently the calculated cost to make sure that those effects are not too damaging is around 1% of the GDP, but it looks like we will do the old penny wise, pound foolish routine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-one-cares-about-global-warming/718337.md?page=4)