# Why No Sir George Harrison? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 10, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109 "2011-01-10T16:57:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/21 "2011-01-10T19:32:16Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > From a discussion I heard just last week on BBC radio when the [New Year’s Honours List](http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Nl1/Newsroom/DG_193300) was published, it appears he has, so far, simply been passed over. Does anyone know if Ringo is still a British citizen or not? Doesn’t he live full time in the US now? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/22 "2011-01-10T19:32:44Z")
Anyone know why Rudyard Kipling refused a knighthood? ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/23 "2011-01-11T14:49:24Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > I get Sir Paul McCartney and Sir Elton John, but why no Sir George Harrison, Sir Richard Starkey or Sir John Lennon? But at the time, the knighthoods for Paul McCartney and Elton John seemed extraordinarily unusual. Giving knighthoods to pop stars was unknown before the mid-1990s. Well, apart from the completely exceptional case of ‘Sir’ Bob Geldolf. The whole idea seemed a bit absurd. But from 1995 that began to change, first with Cliff Richard and then with George Martin. By the time Paul McCartney (1997) and Elton John (1998) got theirs, it was beginning to become something of an annual tradition, but the fact remains that they were right at the front of the queue. It is quite possible that, had he lived, George Harrison would have got one in due course, perhaps as much for his work as a film producer as for his musical career. Ringo meanwhile has become a prime example of that very particular type of British celebrity - someone about whom there is a vague popular feeling that they probably ought to have been knighted by now. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/24 "2011-01-11T15:40:00Z")
> [@APB](#): > > is quite possible that, had he lived, George Harrison would have got one in due course, perhaps as much for his work as a film producer as for his musical career. Ringo meanwhile has become a prime example of that very particular type of British celebrity - someone about whom there is a vague popular feeling that they probably ought to have been knighted by now. I wasn’t suggesting that Ringo should have been knighted by now. Just ondering why he and the others hadn’t been. One can argue that his contribution to the music industry, and to mankind in general, somehow falls short of the mark. Think about what Sir Elton has done for AIDS fund raising, along with his contribution to the music world (not to mention his close ties to the royal family), and of Sir Paul’s incredible musical legacy, you can make a case for them deserving this kind of honor. But has Ringo, as the only remaining Beatle eligible to be knighted, ever been involved in a significantly worthwhile cause towards the betterment of mankind? Were his contributions to music alone worthy of such a high honor? I guess it all depends where you draw the line… ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/25 "2011-01-11T16:18:22Z")
> [@APB](#): > > … first with Cliff Richard … Elton John … One thing I’ve thought about in these cases: Are they really Sir Cliff Richard and Sir Elton John or are they actually Sir Harry Webb and Sir Reginald Dwight. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/26 "2011-01-11T16:24:07Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > One thing I’ve thought about in these cases: Are they really Sir Cliff Richard and Sir Elton John or are they actually Sir Harry Webb and Sir Reginald Dwight. They both changed their names legally by deed poll in the dim and distant past, so they are Sir Cliff and Sir Elton. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/27 "2011-01-11T16:53:51Z")
Harrison was a good and decent human being but when you get right down to it, the Beatles were Lennon and McCartney plus two guys who got lucky. George’s parents let the young Beatles practice in their home and doofy-looking Ringo was seen as non-threatening to John and Paul in fan appeal in contrast to Pete Best. It was a complete surprise to them that in the early days Ringo’s looks appealed to American teenyboppers when in England he was just another guy. As far as pop musicians being knighted, that had to wait until the mid1990s when their generation could begin to take over the reins of government and reward their favorites. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/28 "2011-01-11T17:07:02Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > They both changed their names legally by deed poll in the dim and distant past, so they are Sir Cliff and Sir Elton. I think you can choose to be knighted under whatever name you like. Elton John is Sir Elton, but Michael Caine is Sir Maurice. > [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > Harrison was a good and decent human being but when you get right down to it, the Beatles were Lennon and McCartney plus two guys who got lucky. Dead wrong, but probably a subject for another thread. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/29 "2011-01-11T17:16:16Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > Harrison was a good and decent human being but when you get right down to it, the Beatles were Lennon and McCartney plus two guys who got lucky. As noted, this is wrong, in Harrison’s case, anyway. Harrison wrote a number of Beatle’s songs (and incredibly good ones, too, like _While My Guitar Gently Weeps_, _Here Comes The Sun_ and _Something_), and was an incredible guitarist. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/30 "2011-01-11T18:36:35Z")
There were many, many layers of wrong in **Jim’s Son** post. ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/31 "2011-01-12T15:27:30Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > As noted, this is wrong, in Harrison’s case, anyway. Harrison wrote a number of Beatle’s songs (and incredibly good ones, too, like _While My Guitar Gently Weeps_, _Here Comes The Sun_ and _Something_), and was an incredible guitarist. Dead wrong for Starr, too. John, Paul, and George may have become rock stars without Ringo, but they wouldn’t have been The Beatles. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/32 "2011-01-12T15:50:55Z")
REAL knights do not go around stealing songs 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/33 "2011-01-12T15:59:08Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > As noted, this is wrong, in Harrison’s case, anyway. Harrison wrote a number of Beatle’s songs (and incredibly good ones, too, like _While My Guitar Gently Weeps_, _Here Comes The Sun_ and _Something_), and was an incredible guitarist. But it was Clapton who played the guitar solo in _While My Guitar Gently Weeps._ ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/34 "2011-01-12T16:43:01Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > There were many, many layers of wrong in **Jim’s Son** post. Yes. I don’t know who **Jim** is, but he didn’t raise his **Son** right. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/35 "2011-01-12T17:14:51Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > But it was Clapton who played the guitar solo in _While My Guitar Gently Weeps._ Sure, but Harrison played the solo in[_Badge_](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKH3lbIPQxQ), so that makes up for it. George could play. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/36 "2011-01-12T17:28:39Z")
Colin Powell is also an honorary Knight Commander of the Order of the Bath (KCB), and Rudy Giuliani is an honorary Knight Commander of the Order of the British Empire (KBE). The U.S. Constitution provides, “No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.” And see this: [Order of St Michael and St George - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_St._Michael_and_St._George#Popular_references) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/37 "2011-01-12T21:16:54Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > It would be interesting to know if Ringo turned down knighthood or was simply passed over. Don’t pass me by, don’t make me cry, don’t make me blue. 'Cause you know, Lizzie, I love only you. How you’d hate to see me go With just an MBE to show Don’t pass me by . . . ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/38 "2011-01-12T23:44:10Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > I think there’s no question that had Lennon lived, he would’ve got one when McCartney did I would say it’s pretty likely that Lennon would not have gotten one, seeing as how he returned his MBE (by the way, the original medal that he returned [was “rediscovered” last year](http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article5454895.ece)). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/39 "2011-01-12T23:55:46Z")
Wow, I would have thought it was obvious and appropriate to award the MBE to the Beatles, but that article says, “The appointment of the Fab Four as MBEs in the 1965 Birthday Honours led to several people returning their own MBEs, complaining that they felt the honour had been demeaned.” So apparently it wasn’t so obvious back then. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109/40 "2011-01-13T03:27:29Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > You have to be a citizen of a country that has the Queen as Head of State, so you could be Australian, for instance. That’s incorrect. Australia doesn’t award knighthoods itself, and Australian citizens can’t be awarded knighthoods by the British. The last British knighthoods awarded in Australia were in 1974. After that, there was the Knight (or Dame) of the Order of Australia, which was abolished in 1983. So, no Australian can be made a Sir. [Australian Honours System](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Honours_System) I know Americans like to imagine Australia is a British colony, but we’re not. We’ve been a separate country since 1901, and while QE2 is nominally the Queen of Australia, the actual effect that has on us is nil, and the gov’t of Britain has zero power over the gov’t of Australia. ETA: Australia **is** a member of the Commonwealth, but that’s similar to the European Union: there’s no single country in charge, it’s a partnership. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-sir-george-harrison/567109.md?page=3)