# Why no uproar about John Lennon’s “Imagine”? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 1, 2004, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074 "2004-10-01T17:53:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ersatz\_Shmoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@Ersatz\_Shmoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ersatz_Shmoe)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/21 "2004-10-02T01:11:00Z")
When I was in (So. Baptist) Sunday school, one of the teachers said that Imagine was an evil song because of that bit about no heaven. When I’d grown up and heard the song again, I couldn’t believe how wrongly they’d interpreted it to us poor impressionable kids. Bastard. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/22 "2004-10-02T01:20:59Z")
I remember there being a minor uproar at the time. That song angered a lot of people. When I was in college one of the looney travelling preachers (Brother Jed) said that Lennon was in hell because of that song. Haj ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/23 "2004-10-02T01:36:20Z")
Of course, those of us who saw the original Dick Cavett show when John Lennon was on as Forrest Gump recalled what he observed in Red China knew that was what the song was about. _G_ Seriously, there was/still is some fuss. Lovely music, banal & stupid lyrics, nor worth troubling oneself over IMO. Tho when I was a teen fundy & wrote my LEFT BEHIND novel in 1979, I had IMAGINE as the anthem of the New World Order. ---
**Author:** ![pesch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pesch/32/4925_2.png) [@pesch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pesch)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/24 "2004-10-02T01:39:20Z")
There were a couple differences between 1966 and 1971 as well: 1. I recall the Beatlemania documentary that mentioned that by 1966, the climate in the U.S. was primed for a backlash against the Beatles. They had dominated the radio for years and the uproar over them was so out of proportion that they were due for a fall. The Jesus crack gave anti-Beatleites the sword to swing at them. 2. I suspect also that, given the limited means by which information was transmitted, that it would prove very easy for the words to get twisted about. After all, back then you only had radio stations and a few television networks, and I doubt ABC, CBS and NBC would bother reporting John’s words until after the uproar began. 3. By the time '71 rolled around, not only had the country shifted radically, but so had John and how we perceived him. The Jesus crack came from a group that, long hair aside, were thought to be pretty wholesome. It’s quite a shock to hear something so heritical coming from that sweet boy John. I don’t have the chronology straight in my head, but I would guess that by the time “Imagine” came out, John had already done things like the “Two Virgins” album cover and songs like “Cold Turkey” and “Woman is the Nigger of the World.” The increase in shock value from that to “Imagine” is infinitestimally small. Of course, that didn’t stop the fundys from attacking the song, but the rest of us either liked the song, or didn’t get too bent over it. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/25 "2004-10-02T01:43:39Z")
I can guarantee you that John Lennon believes in a literal Holy God now. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![AllShookDown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d9b06d/32.png) [@AllShookDown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllShookDown)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/26 "2004-10-02T02:11:12Z")
I’m surprised there wasn’t a huge uproar over it being used in the opening (or was it closing) ceremonies of the Olympics in Atlanta. I’m shocked that it got onto the program at all. I’m glad it did though. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/27 "2004-10-02T02:31:57Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > I can guarantee you that John Lennon believes in a literal Holy God now. ☹ Really? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/28 "2004-10-02T02:32:00Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > [semi-hijack]I think the Beatles got hammered most unfairly w/regards to the “more popular than Jesus” statement. I’ve seen transcripts of the interview in which the comment was made and it was pretty obviously _NOT_ a “We’re more popular than Jesus, isn’t that cool?!” sentiment so much as a “Popular culture and celebrity status is bloody ridiculous. The Beatles are now more popular than Jesus, isn’t that ludicrous?!”. From the [1966 article](http://www.geocities.com/nastymcquickly/articles/standard.html) by Maureen Cleave: > [@](#): > > Experience has sown few seeds of doubt in him: not that his mind is closed, but it’s closed round whatever he believes at the time. ‘Christianity will go,’ he said. ‘It will vanish and shrink. I needn’t argue about that; I’m right and I will be proved right. We’re more popular than Jesus now; I don’t know which will go first-rock ‘n’ roll or Christianity. Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It’s them twisting it that ruins it for me.’ He is reading extensively about religion. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/29 "2004-10-02T02:51:19Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > I can guarantee you that John Lennon believes in a literal Holy God now. ☹ Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/30 "2004-10-02T03:04:36Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > [WKRP] The pastor argued that the song should be banned because it said there was no heaven, etc. And Carlson corrected him, “No, it says \*imagine \* there’s no heaven.” And the preacher said, “That would be blasphemy,” I think. I think the reason _American Pie_ hit the banned list is because no one knew what it really meant, and no two people had the same interpretation. That’s a sure sign of **Satan** to some. Like the lyrics to _Louie, Louie,_ which even the FBI found unintelligable. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/31 "2004-10-02T03:23:13Z")
You guys forgot the real point of that _WKRP_ episode. A group was protesting music they considered offensive and had a list of songs they wanted banned. The DJ’s were arguing for freedom of expression. Carlson was debating which side was right. He met with the reverend who said that many people were offended by these songs and he was only a representative. Carlson and he discussed the issue and then Carlson showed him the lyrics. The reverend said he would add that song to the list. Carlson then told him he would not honor the ban, not because he saw the specific value of John Lennon’s lyrics, but because the reverend had just shown that the list was the result of one individual’s choices not a majority of listeners. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/32 "2004-10-02T03:40:58Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > You guys forgot the real point of that _WKRP_ episode. A group was protesting music they considered offensive and had a list of songs they wanted banned. The DJ’s were arguing for freedom of expression. Carlson was debating which side was right. He met with the reverend who said that many people were offended by these songs and he was only a representative. Carlson and he discussed the issue and then Carlson showed him the lyrics. The reverend said he would add that song to the list. Carlson then told him he would not honor the ban, not because he saw the specific value of John Lennon’s lyrics, but because the reverend had just shown that the list was the result of one individual’s choices not a majority of listeners. Right. Carlson said, “That decision was made by one man.” It was a powerful episode, and gutsy. Rarely do sitcoms tackle this kind of subject. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/33 "2004-10-02T03:50:27Z")
As has been aswered well, by the time Lennon came out with Imagine, he was no longer more popular than Jesus. He had become relatively insignificant in the pop mind. However, the idea that those who reacted negatively to the song were overreacting because “it’s just a peace song” is just dumb. The song should be offensive not only to religious people, but to non-religious ‘believers,’ too. Lennon is blaming all the wars and woes of the world not only on religious institutions, but also on theistic faith (‘imagine there’s no heaven’). Then he goes on to blame the existence of nations for all the wars and woes. If only we could get rid of all that bad stuff, then we can live as one. Right. Like there’s never been any crimes or fights on atheistic communes. What a load of naive bullshit. [Disclaimers: Yes, people have used religion and nationalism as justifications for violence. Justifying violence is the bad guy here, not necessarily religions or nations. No, just because I believe the song is offensive do I condone censorship. Leave me out of the WKRP discussion.] Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/34 "2004-10-02T04:41:38Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > I can guarantee you that John Lennon believes in a literal Holy God now. ☹ If you’re implying what I think you’re imply, then that’s a horrible thing to say! I still love “Imagine”, even if it is kinda korny. It’s a nice, soothing song. I really love John Lennon-I was a HUGE Lennon fan in high school. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/35 "2004-10-02T04:45:31Z")
I think the answer to the OP is that there has been a lot of water under the bridge between 1971 and today. There was no 700 Club or Fox News to fabricate controversies over music that the offendees would never listen to in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/36 "2004-10-02T04:56:21Z")
> [@moriah](#): > > As has been aswered well, by the time Lennon came out with Imagine, he was no longer more popular than Jesus. He had become relatively insignificant in the pop mind. :rolleyes: Hardly. The Beatles had only split up a year ago. And if I’m not mistaken, “Imagine” was his best selling solo album. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/37 "2004-10-02T05:26:20Z")
Ahhhh but there is justice in this world. On August 13, 1966 radion station KLUE in Texas (fervently anti-Beatle because of John’s remark) was struck by lightning. [http://www.newsoftheodd.com/article1012.html](http://www.newsoftheodd.com/article1012.html) Guess God is a Beatles fan. Perhaps this is the reason people were not as “outraged” by Lennon’s song 5 years later? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/38 "2004-10-02T07:10:10Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > They probably didn’t like the [“American Pie”] bit that went: > > _As the flames climbed into the night > To light the sacrificial rite > I saw Satan laughing with delight > The day the music died_ > > Of course, they didn’t understand that it meant Satan would be happy if rock music went away. Also, the final verse created some controversy: _And the three men I admire most The Father Son and Holy Ghost They caught the last train for the coast The day the music died_ Among the interpretations of this lyric are that the Holy Trinity literally abandoned the world (remember the frequent “God is Dead” references made during the late '60’s and early '70’s) or that Don McLean is blasphemously equating Buddy Holly, Richie Valens, and The Big Bopper to the three aspects of the Christian Divinity. In an earlier verse, the mere questioning of God’s worthiness was sufficient cause for some to condemn the song and the singer: _Did you write the book of love, And do you have faith in God above, If the Bible tells you so?_ ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/39 "2004-10-02T07:26:18Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I have no problem with the song. And I agree with what Lennon said: > [@](#): > > I believe in God, but not as one thing, not as an old man in the sky. I believe that what people call God is something in all of us. I believe that what Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha and all the rest said was right. It’s just that the translations have gone wrong. **Liberal!** The apocalypse is upon us! How can it be that you and I both agree on the same thing??? Ahhhhhh, I’m melting… SssssssnakeSsssssspirit… ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074/40 "2004-10-02T07:31:19Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > I can guarantee you that John Lennon believes in a literal Holy God now. ☹ Oh? And how do you guarantee that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-no-uproar-about-john-lennon-s-imagine/267074.md?page=3)