Are you offended? Because even if I thought he’d made a mistake, I’m not sure I’d come within a million miles of taking offense.
It’s the lunatic fringe of the right wing that has made it an issue and has sold offense as a commodity. Did you see it happen live and jump up from your chair shouting “Zounds! No American President should ever bow to the leader of any other country!” Or, as is more likely, did you see a news report and get manipulated into a position? For instance, in the linked video of Bush 43 receiving some bling from the King, W kissed him on both cheeks. I never heard anything about that until I saw the video and nobody made anything of it. But that seems a lot more obsequious than bowing.
Sorry, but this is part and parcel with the ranting and raving about Obama calling the Qur’an “holy”. That just seems rational - when speaking before an audience of Muslims in a Muslim country about their holy book, it is only polite to call the book they consider holy, “holy”. Anything else would just be dickishness. And we’ve had eight years of that.
Neither. I saw a picture in an online news account, which, IIRC, made no mention of the appropriateness of the gesture. I made my own little mind up all by myself. Sorry to disappoint you.
Oh Christ, its simply a matter of respect, not to be construed as a means of subservience.
Then why was the gesture not returned? Does he not respect Obama?
This thread has been hilarious to read.
Have any of the “hur hur hur, they don’t rule me so I wouldn’t bow to them and I wouldn’t call them anything but ‘hey yo’” types have **actually been ** in the presence of dignitaries? Yap all you want, you know you’ll “bow” to peer pressure and act as is expected of you. Not like you’d be afforded the opportunity, anyway.
I’m not religious - while I’m not going to call the pope “Your holiness the Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Christ Successor of the Prince of the Apostles Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church Primate of Italy Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province Sovereign of the State of the Vatican City Servant of the Servants of God”, I’m not going to call him “hey Mr. Ratzinger”, either. Not unless I wanted to come across as a boorish cad
But would you kiss the ring?
Only if I get to ride around in his cool car.
Well…a couple of things. First off, no…I wouldn’t bow. I’d shake hands. Not that the situation is ever likely to come up wrt me being in the presence of royalty. I HAVE been in the presence of some relatively famous people (including an actual President…several times actually in one case), however, and while I think some level of deference (to the position, if not the person) is necessary, bowing and scraping is not really my style. The second thing is…I’m NOT the President, so even if I was going to bow (heh) to peer pressure for my own lowly self, I don’t think the President, ANY President, should. After all, the President is the peer of any ruling monarch, Prime Minister, President or Ruling Thug(ARR) out there.
BTW, that show on body language was on again last night on Discovery…it was pretty interesting what people give away through body language, and how serious politicians take body language. They actually had a number of clips of Obama on the show that I had forgotten about…but they were all from before he became president.
-XT
I think the pressure to conform to a standardized regime of formally recognized protocol would be enhanced if it wasn’t merely your self that you were representing, but an entire nation state.
I have met a Cardinal (“Your Eminence” but no ring kissing, as I am not Catholic, so I shook his hand), a number of Elected reps ( "Congresswoman, “Senator”), and a Prince of a nation that no longer has royalty, so I although did say “pleased to meet you, your Highness”, I only did a little head bobble nod, not a bow. But pretty much, I did more or less as expected, although a few were going to a bow or a curtsy to the Prince.
I always though of the USA as the great and proud republican nation founded on a certain disgust for royalty and all that it entails. If it is true that your president has started to bow to kings, that is all past. Just another nation.
What I don’t get is why American presidents have taken to using military salute. It looks terrible. I just saw a photo of Obama, Sarkozy and others on the D-Day commemoration ceremonies where they are walking past some flags and Obama is the only one who is saluting militarily and it makes him look totally goofy. I was always taught that you only salute when you are wearing uniform and head cover.
That should be the real discussion and not whether Obama lowering his head so that the king can put a collar over it qualifies as a bow and/or as a sign of submission. That is just silly.
It’s silly to YOU. Shocking as this might seem, not everyone else finds it so.
It’s become traditional…similar to other Presidential traditions (like getting sworn in on the bible). I think it was Regan who started this one, and they have all followed his lead since. While you find the bowing discussion ‘silly’, I have to say that I find this one rather silly, personally. It’s just one of the quirky traditions that get started and that everyone seems to go along with. Personally, I thought Obama would break with this one and maybe start a new one…but it doesn’t seem he is going to go that route.
-XT
Just curious – what nation was it?
Italy. iirc.
No he’s not - he’s God, sort of, and above the US and the world. Cite.
Regards,
Shodan
So a Newsweek editor, in a fit of hyperbole, says that Obama is “sort of God”?
Your boy Bush, on the other hand, claimed that God chose him to rule the free world.. Dude. You voted for a guy who says he hears voices.
Do you have a real cite for the Bush claim?
Regards,
Shodan
By that, I mean that you have the Telegraph claiming that the BBC says that the Palestinian foreign minister allege that the interpreter told him that Bush claimed that the Palestinians should have their own state, and that Bush should fight terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan.
And then you badly misrepresent the claim at the end of it. So basically, nobody is reliable at pretty much every step of the way.
Regards,
Shodan