Stop calling them a theocracy, they’re not. They’re a monarchy.
OH MY GOD. Did you even bother to click on the video? He was bending over to recieve a medal after which they both shook hands.
Then what’s the big deal now? Oh, IOKIARDI. Gotcha.
Try not to jerk your knee so much in the future…you might hurt yourself. Just some friendly advice, FWIW.
-XT
:eek: Left wingers weren’t paying all that much attention to what Bush was doing during his presidency? And didn’t really care? Dude, whatever it is you’re smoking, you should share it.
The reason that not even most lefties really cared about Bush bowing to foreign royalty was because most of them had the sense to see that it was a fairly trivial formality of protocol. There were plenty of substantive things to criticize Bush over, just as there are plenty of substantive things to criticize Obama about. Obsessing over the “bow” is just making the critics look like paranoid jerks.
Sure I did, and like I said, it was clearly a trivial formality of protocol. If Obama had bowed to receive the King Abdul Aziz Order of Merit from King Abdullah, the way Bush did, you guys would be pooping your pants over it.
sigh Left wingers weren’t paying attention to whether Bush bowed to Saudi kings…they had a lot of OTHER things on their minds. Also, based on this thread (though I wouldn’t draw too many conclusions here), left wingers think it’s perfectly ok for an American president to bow…so, they didn’t make an issue of it. I’m sure this will come as a really big shock to you, but if no one ever brought it up, then the issue never got on most peoples radar…most people also having other things to ding Bush on.
I’m not sure if you are being deliberately dense here or if what I wrote was really that hard to follow. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt though and simply say that I should have been clearer…it seemed stunningly obvious to me.
-XT
The King was an invited dignatary as well. The bow took place in London. When President Obama visited King Abdullah in Saudi Arabia today, he didn’t bow.
An obviously false link and a strawman too…you are on a roll. Maybe I shouldn’t have given you the benefit of the doubt.
To spell it out (to avoid confusion), was Obama receiving the Order of Merit from the King? No? Then this is a strawman on your part. The link you provided didn’t show Bush bowing. Instead of just fessing up (or, better yet, digging around…I wouldn’t be surprised if Bush DID do this at some point, as bone headed as the man was), you instead toss out this steaming pile.
Why not just acknowledge that your link doesn’t show what you claimed it did and move on? Better, yet, why not dispense with the whole ‘Well Bush did it!’ line and address the OP wrt Obama, or just presidents in general? Why drag that asshole Bush into the discussion?
-XT
uh huh.
Just curious, but suppose the Republicans in Congress passed legislation forbidding trade with, yes, let’s call it Rhodesia, on the basis of these discriminatory practices. And suppose Obama vetoed it. What would you say then? Pretty shitty thing to do, right?
Yes, you should. You appeared to be contrasting “no one really paid all that much [attention] to what Bush was doing…or really cared” with “Obama’s actions are scrutinized and hugely watched and dissected”. Naturally, that gave the impression that you were comparing the level of scrutiny overall given to both presidents, not just to the particular circumstances of their bowing behavior.
Uh, yeah it did. Bush bowed before the Saudi King to receive a medal and then, as Magiver pointed out, shook his hand. Obama bowed before the Saudi King in greeting while, as a White House aide has pointed out, shaking his hand. Neither action was anything more than a trivial formality of protocol, and neither action indicated subservience or a declaration of fealty on the part of the US, and I don’t really understand how anyone but a paranoid ninny could think it did.
Yup. Sorry to deprive you of your fondly-imagined “gotcha” moment, but in fact you don’t even need to click the video to notice what Bush is bowing about in this case: the ribbon of the medal is clearly visible in King Abdullah’s raised hands right there in the first image of the link.
shrug As I said, it seemed obvious to me…though, granted, it was awkwardly worded.
Ridiculous. Even if we are going to use Bush (fucking BUSH!) as the yard stick for proper presidential behavior in the presence of foreign dignitaries, there is a world of difference between bowing one’s head to receive a medal (what was he supposed to do? Have the king get on a step stool to put it over his head??) and simply bowing. Those actions are not at all related.
I’m going to guess here that you are not going to see the difference, so I suggest we move on to the actual issue at hand.
-XT
This would work better if your quote supported more than the last eight words of your assertion here.
I disagree on both points - bowing is not necessarily a subordinate gesture, and a gesture of respect from one leader to another doesn’t imply in the slightest that the entire nation respects that leader (much less is subordinate to it). And until you convince me otherwise, your empty assertions will remain uncompelling.
I do note that a failure to be reasonably conciliatory might easily be a hindrance to or even trigger an abrupt end to diplomatic relations. If the plan to correct the atrocities of the country is to bomb them into glass, that’s fine, but if one hopes to actually get them to change their policies while still breathing, it sometimes helps not to torpedo the diplomacy out of overinflated ego.
And yet you missed it.
Nope. If you’re going to nitpick the protocol, what you’re technically supposed to do when receiving a medal is incline your head forward (drop your chin on your chest) to let the ribbon be slipped over your head, not bow low from the waist the way Bush did.
However, nobody would have dreamed of nitpicking that protocol in Bush’s case if this silly incident with Obama hadn’t been turned into a right-wing wankfest.
Because there isn’t a substantial difference, being that both actions were merely trivial formalities of protocol.
I sympathize with your embarrassment over having your righteous indignation undermined by the discovery of the awkward evidence of Bush’s similar obeisance, but you’ll just have to get over it. Face it, neither of these bows was worth anybody getting steamed about, and the steameder the right-wing Obama-haters get, the sillier they look.
It’s pretty simple. We don’t support the concept of subordinate royalty. Canadians bow to the Queen because they are subjects of her. We don’t. We are not subjects of the King of Saudi Arabia and as the representative of the United States the President should act accordingly.
Uh huh.