Kimstu: I usually love your posts but you’re flailing here. The link you posted was most certainly Shrub bowing to get some cockamamie medal or another and there’s an obvious, identifiable difference between that and bowing to a king as a gesture of greeting or “subservience.”
And I’ll echo what a few other posters said: it’s all about the guy nod. I would have adored seeing the awkward King Abdullah attempt. That or a hearty ass slap.
Don’t know if this is relevant…
I used to be in the British Army (back in the 70s), and spent one glorious summer helping out behind the scenes at the Edinburgh Military Tattoo. At the start of the show, the band played three or four National Anthems depending on who was performing (British, French, American…).
We had to stand at the salute (one gloved hand spread across the forehead 
) for all the anthems. This was a gesture of respect, not subservience. Strikes me that Obama’s bow was the same thing, albeit somewhat clumsily executed. As various people have said, 'Mericans don’t get a lot of practice at bowing.
You can just call her Her Britannic Majesty, that’s fine.
Monarch’s don’t bow to anyone, even each other. The Queen hasn’t curtsied since she was a princess.
Thanks for phrasing it so kindly, and it’s fine if we disagree, but we still disagree. The reason I posted that link in the first place is precisely because it seems obvious to me that there is a meaningful similarity between the two bows, even though their circumstances aren’t identical, and that it’s hairsplitting to claim that Obama’s is somehow “subservient” in a way that Bush’s is not.
Both were simply respectful gestures in salutation that accompanied other actions (receiving a medal in Bush’s case, shaking hands in Obama’s case), and the only reason that one of them is being portrayed as a big deal about symbolic “subservience” and the other isn’t is because the Obama-haters are on the case.
When backed into a corner, the best thing to do is to attempt to paint anyone who disagrees with you as a Bush lover (and an Obama-hater)…it’s just SO much easier that way, ehe, Kimstu?
:rolleyes: What a load. Personally, I think you are so ridiculously partisan that you are incapable of seeing that there is a huge difference between receiving a medal (in which you HAVE to duck your head for them to put it around your neck) and bowing for no reason other than to shake hands. And I find it ironic in the extreme that we have now shifted away from the ‘Yeah, but Clinton did it!’ standard line to ‘Well, Bush did it too!’. As if because Bush did something this should somehow make it cool when Obama does something similar.
Let me spell it out to you, since your knee is jerking for all it’s worth, and since it’s fairly obvious that your have your broad brush poised to paint anyone who disagrees with you as Bush Lover/Obama Hater…I HATED Bush. He was a boob. I voted for Obama…I had and still have high hopes for him. If Obama does something that Bush did, I characterize this as A Bad Thing™, not an excuse or license.
An American President should NOT BOW TO A FUCKING FOREIGN KING…regardless of if that American President is GW Bush, B. Obama or Elmer Fudd. This has nothing to do with supposed partisan politics (except on your skewed side of things)…I don’t give a flying fuck if said president is Republican, Democrat or Bull Moose.
-XT
I think the next time, Obama should just go for a high-five.
I like the knuckle bumping idea, personally. Or, he could just do the handshake dance that nearly every other politician on earth goes through (to try and get the power handshake position). I don’t know of many cultures where a handshake is taboo.
For those who do look down on a regular old handshake, maybe they could bump chests or something…
-XT
What’s the power handshake position?
'Cos my immediate thought is the old electric buzzer trick.
It’s when two politician’s meet in front of the camera to shake hands. The politician who has his hand in front (i.e. toward the camera) has the ‘power’ position…and I guess they all jockey for this position, even going so far as to walk out of their way to try and get this position. Also, if, when you shake, you also reach up with your left hand and touch the other guys elbow while shaking…well, this is (supposedly) the ultimate power shake. It shows you are in control (or something).
-XT
There, there, I didn’t mean to imply that everybody who disagrees with me about this is an Obama-hater, and I certainly didn’t mean to call you one. What I meant, and still maintain, is that the only reason this fundamentally trivial incident became a big deal is because the Obama-haters deliberately whipped it up.
Well, the same can be said about some of the minor things that Bush did that the left went off on. Obviously people opposed to a given president are going to highlight or emphasize things that they dislike or disagree with…and, by doing so, occasionally they are going to bring those issues onto the radar screen of the American people. I freely acknowledge that this became a hot issue (such as it is) because the right wingers have made a big deal about it…and thus it’s gotten on, for instance, my own radar.
I do, however, think it’s not a trivial issue. It was a mistake, IMHO (and, I think an honest one by Obama)…and hopefully one that is not repeated. I realize that you disagree with this, and that to you it’s not a big deal…but you need to realize that some people who aren’t knee jerk Bush lovers/Obama haters have a different opinion on this.
It would also be nice if you could realize that your link earlier was an apples to oranges comparison and you would simply acknowledge that…but I’d settle for understanding that not everyone feels this is a trivial issue.
-XT
Amen brother. This middle-of-the-road Republican would have found it quite refreshing if the WH had just announced, “Obama is from Chicago and isn’t accustomed to meeting Kings. Now he knows what to do. By the way, we fired the protocol guy.”
As for you people that can’t believe that the Fox right wingers are apoplectic about this, let me remind you, that’s what they get paid to do. Their target market isn’t going to accept Obama no matter what he does. I honestly feel that the initial “The President didn’t bow” played right into their hands. It’s best to just ignore them since neither they nor their constituencies are going to be open-minded about such things.
Sorry, I was brought up to be courteous. You always acknowledge the other person when you are introduced. If it is appropriate, I offer my hand, or drop a curtsey [though in Japan or to a japanese it would be a bow] as courtesy requires.
I have curtseyed to Queen Elizabeth, and would do it again. I did respond using Madam instead of ‘your majesty’ which is appropriate for the situation.
It is rude to not be polite, and I am quite sure that she understood that as an american she was not my monarch …
No you don’t get it. American citizens are supposed to be assholes. All of us. All the time. We think we’re better than everyone else and we’re relentless in making sure they know it, dammit!
We have a reputation to maintain, you know?
Yes, it certainly can.
Yes, I thought I acknowledged that when I explicitly said in my most recent post, “I didn’t mean to imply that everybody who disagrees with me about this is an Obama-hater”.
Sorry about not being able to agree with you on the apples and oranges thing, but I am certainly willing to concede that not everyone feels that this is a trivial issue, and that not everyone who considers it non-trivial is an Obama-hater.
Works for me.
-XT
Smooch and friends again, then? 
Of course.
-XT
Shouldn’t that be a bow? 
Troublemaker.