# Why Not Build That Wall? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 9, 2019, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210 "2019-02-09T00:11:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/21 "2019-02-09T02:17:20Z")
It’s defense vs offense. Defense is much, much harder. You defend against one scenario but the attackers have a dozen scenarios up their sleeve. I like the Dems idea about a “smart” wall. Use technology for a fraction of the cost. They should push that and embarrass Drumpf as trying to build archaic walls that won’t do the job. ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/22 "2019-02-09T02:25:11Z")
> [@Barack Obama](#): > > . But even so, why shouldn’t we just build a wall. Well, off the top of my head: (1) Most long term illegal residents did not sneak across the border in dead of night, (2) the existing sections of fence have barely made a scratch in the number of Mexican citizens living in America (a Dartmouth study showed a decrease of 0.6% according to the issue of the Economist in front of me), (3) the staggering costs of building and maintaining a giant wall would be completely disproportionate to the problem it pretends to solve, (4) building a giant wall would be ecologically catastrophic, (5) of all the various wall designs tested, the only ones actually deemed suitable were similar to the 500 miles of fence we already have, (6) the existing fence is estimated to have _reduced_ American GDP, rather than grown it. My question for OP is: Why are we still talking about this? Could you not be bothered to read one of the many other threads on the topic? Or just do a Google? All of these problems have been publicized in detail, so there is nothing you are learning from me that has not already been said elsewhere. At this point, the problem of the wall has already been studied so thoroughly that I’m astonished we still have to have this discussion at all. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/23 "2019-02-09T02:41:41Z")
I found this reason quite compelling (from one of the many other threads about this): > [@Trump's Shutdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/612): > > The reason Texas doesn’t want the wall is not because they’re into nullification, \*\*it is because the border in Texas is mostly privately owned land that would need to be appropriated via eminent domain. For people who have to balance “they’re coming for your wimmen!” vs. “The government is going to take your land”, the passion just isn’t as hot for the wall. > \*\* > Weren’t the existing sections built on public land, and sold as a drug-interdiction strategy? Now it is proposed on private land, and sold as a monument to hatred. There are distinctions here. > > I’m surprised this has gone on so long without the eminent domain aspect getting more attention. The plan is pretty much not feasible because of this, and that should be the end of it. > > But no, the deadline to have something ready to sign by the 15th is tomorrow, and I have not seen much in the way of a deal. Get ready for a Cat 5 stupid storm, folks. Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/24 "2019-02-09T02:46:39Z")
**Why Not Build That Wall?** Because if you can build a wall, I can dig a tunnel. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/25 "2019-02-09T04:21:51Z")
Seems to me the solution is: Expand use of E-Verify and increase penalties for employers flouting the law. Provide more work visas so that people can enter legally. Build fences in areas with large population and frequent border crossings. Use smart technology on the vast, mostly empty areas of the border. Provide path to citizenship for those who have lived here for a long time and not committed crimes. Stop pretending that people coming here for economic reasons need asylum, and expedite true asylum seekers status ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/26 "2019-02-09T04:26:47Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > From what I recall judges shot it down and forced him to release them instead of keeping children detained. And the only times they were separated were when violent or repeat crimes were committed. And there were situations where peoples home countries wouldnt allow them back, so obama had to keep them detained. For the record, this is entirely false. Find better sources. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/27 "2019-02-09T04:34:46Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > From what I recall judges shot it down and forced him to release them instead of keeping children detained. And the only times they were separated were when violent or repeat crimes were committed. And there were situations where peoples home countries wouldnt allow them back, so obama had to keep them detained. > I’m just going by what I remember when this was all going on. I don’t have any specific citations for this but if you have any refuting what I recall please share. I wouldn’t say obama had child prisons, but he def detained children and separated some families but only under somewhat reasonable conditions. So no cite then? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/28 "2019-02-09T04:39:47Z")
> [@Batano](#): > > Seems to me the solution is: > > Expand use of E-Verify and increase penalties for employers flouting the law. > > Provide more work visas so that people can enter legally. > > Build fences in areas with large population and frequent border crossings. > > Use smart technology on the vast, mostly empty areas of the border. > > Provide path to citizenship for those who have lived here for a long time and not committed crimes. > > Stop pretending that people coming here for economic reasons need asylum, and expedite true asylum seekers status 1. Yes, especially on the penalties which are weak or completely non-existent now. The current crop of millionaires in Washington doesn’t want to stop the supply of cheap labor. 2. Yes to the temporary visas, but it will never happen as it makes the labor more expensive. It is much cheaper if they are illegal and you can hold that fact over their heads. 3. Done. 4. Pretty much done, but more funding would always help. 5. I agree, but this is controversial. 6. Agreed, including those who helped us in Iraq and Syria and that we are now hanging out to dry. Truly shameful. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/29 "2019-02-09T05:39:42Z")
Let’s put aside the problems with the wall itself and just look at the political aspects. First, letting the President hold the country hostage is a really bad idea. If we let Trump do it successfully, why won’t he do it again the next time he wants something and Congress won’t give it to him? Why won’t future Presidents follow his example when they want something Congress won’t agree to? Second, why give Trump a win? It doesn’t matter if he only won because the Democrats handed it to him. He’ll still take all the credit. And that will help him when he’s running for re-election. Trump is doing a terrible job and is harming the country. We should be working on getting him out of office not helping him stay in it. I don’t think we should go as far as sabotaging the country in order to get rid of Trump. But we certainly shouldn’t do him any favors. The Republicans have coddled him for the last two years every time he screwed up and he learned nothing. Now the Democrats should start holding him accountable when he screws up. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/30 "2019-02-09T16:30:33Z")
> [@JB99](#): > > Well, off the top of my head: (1) Most long term illegal residents did not sneak across the border in dead of night, (2) the existing sections of fence have barely made a scratch in the number of Mexican citizens living in America (a Dartmouth study showed a decrease of 0.6% according to the issue of the Economist in front of me), (3) the staggering costs of building and maintaining a giant wall would be completely disproportionate to the problem it pretends to solve, (4) building a giant wall would be ecologically catastrophic, (5) of all the various wall designs tested, the only ones actually deemed suitable were similar to the 500 miles of fence we already have, (6) the existing fence is estimated to have _reduced_ American GDP, rather than grown it. > > My question for OP is: Why are we still talking about this? Could you not be bothered to read one of the many other threads on the topic? Or just do a Google? All of these problems have been publicized in detail, so there is nothing you are learning from me that has not already been said elsewhere. At this point, the problem of the wall has already been studied so thoroughly that I’m astonished we still have to have this discussion at all. This guy’s videos raised the issue of it being too much of a political game to be resolved, and could potentially result in another shutdown. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/z5YWVl-F2c0/maxresdefault.jpg "The Real Solution to the Border Wall Crisis | Illegal Immigration | America Uncovered") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5YWVl-F2c0) ---
**Author:** ![SuperAbe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@SuperAbe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperAbe)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/31 "2019-02-09T16:36:03Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > As a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat, I say build the wall. That way we have something to line the GOP up against when it comes time to administer justice for treason. I said there was no argument for building this absurd wall I could support. I was wrong… this feels right. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/32 "2019-02-10T09:10:46Z")
I’m glad to see most of OP’s silliness was shot down. Left unasked: **OP** , why is your user name _Barack Obama_? How would you rank yourself as a fan of the 44th President? > [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > … everything republicans are saying is bullshit to support their new base’s notions of building a wall and deporting mexicans. But they shut down the government, and it appears to me at least shutting down the government for a month did more damage than not having a wall did… > > … Obama tried to have child concentration camps … > > … Surely a wall would eventually pay for it’s self, that is if illegal immigrants are in fact a net negative and not a net positive for our economy. But even so, why shouldn’t we just build a wall. It’s all fine annd dandy if everyone wants to refute Trumps claims and republican voter’s distaste for anyone with a slightly darker complexion than them. But at what point do we just say hey, let’s fund reinforcing the existing fence and throw some more border agents down there. … make drugs less profitable for cartels, stop funding them to terrorize their countries, and for fucks sake stop fucking with other people’s governments. We don’t give a damn about human rights until we need to use human rights as a justification to invade a country. It’s hypocritical and all bullshit… I don’t know where to start. Building a wall would eventually pay for itself? Would burning down forests or polluting rivers eventually pay for themselves? If we’d let Obama build his “child concentration camps” would they have eventually paid for themselves? In the past, the U.S. Government has done much harm to governance in Latin America. But is it the culprit in Honduras’ political problems today? (Sincere question: I can’t keep track of all the weird politics around the world.) Let me refer OP to some other posts which may help him reconsider his views: > [@enipla](#): > > And… Trump is holding a gun to the head of America, while throwing a childish temper tantrum. You don’t give into a 5 year old in such a circumstance, why should we with a elderly man? A child (not unlike Trump) will just do it again, and again. > > Trump is a ‘man’ not interested in facts or educating himself, but relies on ‘gut feelings’. This is not something that you acquiesce to. > [@JB99](#): > > Well, off the top of my head: (1) Most long term illegal residents did not sneak across the border in dead of night, (2) the existing sections of fence have barely made a scratch in the number of Mexican citizens living in America (a Dartmouth study showed a decrease of 0.6% according to the issue of the Economist in front of me), (3) the staggering costs of building and maintaining a giant wall would be completely disproportionate to the problem it pretends to solve, (4) building a giant wall would be ecologically catastrophic, (5) of all the various wall designs tested, the only ones actually deemed suitable were similar to the 500 miles of fence we already have, (6) the existing fence is estimated to have _reduced_ American GDP, rather than grown it. > > My question for OP is: Why are we still talking about this? Could you not be bothered to read one of the many other threads on the topic? Or just do a Google? All of these problems have been publicized in detail, so there is nothing you are learning from me that has not already been said elsewhere. At this point, the problem of the wall has already been studied so thoroughly that I’m astonished we still have to have this discussion at all. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/33 "2019-02-10T09:43:14Z")
> [@Batano](#): > > Expand use of E-Verify and increase penalties for employers flouting the law. > > Provide more work visas so that people can enter legally. I know the image of the illegal immigrants is wetbacks, but the reality is that, for the US, most enter the country legally and either: - overstay tourist visas, - take jobs they’re not authorized to take (a lot of situations which allow a person to live in the US are limited for employment, for example being a student, in a cultural exchange, or in one of those temporal asylum-like programs), - or take jobs they’re at that point authorized to take and then run out of work permit. This is often done with the complicity or even under the pressure of the employers. If you’re found out and deported, it hurts them a lot less than it hurts you. Behind the immigration issues there are some structural characteristics of the US legal system which complicate things: - which things are the responsibility of which level of government isn’t clear - whether they are from the same government or from different levels of government, laws aren’t required to fit with each other either at the time they’re created or later; the US system is antagonistic at all levels, including this one. You’re not just fond of suing (“I’ll sue you!” is the stereotypical American line in much of the world), you view all legal structures as Combat By Lawyer. The lack of this requirement means that the government can order that something be done without providing funding or the necessary logistics, or without checking whether the Laws of Physics allow for it (who approved those, anyway? :p). Whether those characteristics are good or bad depends on who looks at them. From the point of view of someone trying to run the immigration maze it’s a nightmare. It’s possible to find yourself indocumented without meaning to be because at some point the machinery failed: requisites were impossible for the government itself to fulfill (the same government which had created them in the first place), quotas are irrisory, or your lawyer wrote the date in the wrong format. Any of those happen, you’re supposed to drop what may at that point in time be years or decades of living in the US and go back home, sometimes to a country where you’re seen as a weirdo or which you barely remember. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2019, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/34 "2019-02-11T03:31:30Z")
Trump wants to shutdown the government, but I doubt it has anything to do with keeping illegals out of the country; it’s just an excuse to destroy the civil service and replace them with private contractors. Donald Trump and the Republican party are kleptocrats, and they’re taking their directions from the world’s kleptocrats, which isn’t an accident. Our banking system is among the most kleptocrat-friendly in the world. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/35 "2019-02-11T13:40:46Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > **Why Not Build That Wall?** > > Because if you can build a wall, I can dig a tunnel. A dome is the way to go. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2019, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/36 "2019-02-11T14:19:58Z")
> [@Kamaski](#): > > Cocaine would not be possible without 30 US patented chemicals. This is, of course, a ridiculous falsehood. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2019, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/37 "2019-02-11T15:04:10Z")
It would be a massive property rights infringement. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/38 "2019-02-11T16:56:28Z")
Also massive environmental damage > **['Death sentence': butterfly sanctuary to be bulldozed for Trump's border wall](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/13/butterfly-sanctuary-border-wall-mission-texas)** > > More than 200 species make their homes at America’s most diverse sanctuary, but construction through the reserve could begin in February ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/39 "2019-02-11T22:42:41Z")
Thing is if we ever want to have free healthcare and education for all we HAVE to get a better handle on our immigration issue both legal and illegal. In european countries with vast welfare systems like say Denmark they have found this out and stopped illegal immigration. We just dont have the resources to house, feed, and educate more people when we cant do it with those already here. I mean look at the homeless problems in California. How can they solve that while still providing housing for a thousand new people who just show up every day? We can barely find enough teachers and build enough schools for the kids here now. How can we provide for the thousands who also want an education? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2019, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210/40 "2019-02-11T22:48:33Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I mean look at the homeless problems in California. How can they solve that while still providing housing for a thousand new people who just show up every day? We can barely find enough teachers and build enough schools for the kids here now. How can we provide for the thousands who also want an education? Very easily, and more cheaply than dealing with the homeless the way we currently are, according to multiple studies. Cite: [Giving homes to the homeless is cheaper than leaving them on the streets - Vox](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2014/5/30/5764096/its-three-times-cheaper-to-give-housing-to-the-homeless-than-to-keep) Next question? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-build-that-wall/829210.md?page=3)