# Why not declare Israel the 51st state? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 24, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695 "2012-10-24T03:26:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/21 "2012-10-24T08:33:47Z")
Yeah, well, I bet you were wasting your time with something pointless, like working. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/22 "2012-10-24T09:08:14Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yeah, well, I bet you were wasting your time with something pointless, like working. I take it, Israel is not an “dismiss at will” jurisdiction? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/23 "2012-10-24T09:23:30Z")
On of the advantages of being self-employed is that I can post on the SDMB whenever I want. Interesting fact: that’s also one of the disadvantages of being self-employed. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/24 "2012-10-24T10:10:20Z")
> [@The\_Sheikh](#): > > I live among fundamentalists. Most people are for democracy - Muslim-style. You won’t give gays the right of marriage, and we won’t allow blasphemy among other things. We don’t have the right to call for Sharia law in western countries, and you shouldn’t have the right to dictate your laws upon us. > > Religion is not the problem, Jews and Christians live safely in every Muslim countries. The problem is sponsored terrorism; the one sponsored by the us: Israel and Arab dictatorships. I grew up in an Islamic state. “Muslim-style democracy” is an oxymoron. Democracy says the masses get to vote on whether or not to legalize gay marriage. Muslim-style democracy says proselytizing for it is a criminal offense, and if you proselytize about the wrong thing (say, question the position of Big Mo), we may have to execute you. It’s a bit tough for women in a Muslim-style democracy to get as far as the democratic vote thing when the proselytizing thing criminalizes the message that you want to get out to persuade the voters in the first place… Religion is the problem, and the Jews and Christians where I grew up continue to live in fear. My email inbox has a story or two a week about Christians in my home country and their persecution. They live cloistered religious lives, and even a simple conversation can result in persecution for “blasphemy” (among other things). ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/25 "2012-10-24T10:59:39Z")
> [@The\_Sheikh](#): > > IWe don’t have the right to call for Sharia law in western countries, and you shouldn’t have the right to dictate your laws upon us. You absolutely have the right to call for Sharia law in western countries. That’s not to say you will get it. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/26 "2012-10-24T11:38:02Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > To answer the OP in the most literal sense, the reason why Israel shouldn’t be the 51st state is that Israelis don’t want it to be. We like the U.S. a lot - you guys rock! - but we value our independence more. How much would you value…some beads? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/27 "2012-10-24T11:44:59Z")
Well, that depends. Are they \*glass \*beads? ---
**Author:** ![BlueOhio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/439d5e/32.png) [@BlueOhio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueOhio)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/28 "2012-10-24T12:44:09Z")
How many electoral votes will they get? And - what a boon for flag makers. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/29 "2012-10-24T12:50:48Z")
When Israel becomes the 51st state (sorry, Puerto Rico!), what’ll be their license plate slogan? “Satan’s Birthplace”? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/30 "2012-10-24T12:55:36Z")
Better solution: Why not have the US become part of Israel? They seem to have their act together more than we do. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/31 "2012-10-24T12:58:34Z")
> [@BlueOhio](#): > > How many electoral votes will they get? And - what a boon for flag makers. Well, the combined population of the US and Israel is roughly 320,000,000. Divided by 540 (two more senators, dontchano!! :)) that gives just short of 600,000 people per Electoral Vote. So, my back-of-the-envelope calculation leads me to assume that Israel, with a population of almost exactly 8,000,000, would have very close to 13.5 electoral votes. So it would be either 13 or 14 depending on the exact method of calculation I leave it as an exercise for _other_ readers to determine which states those 11 or 12 electors (=representatives) would have to come from. This is the Dope, you didn’t think somebody would do the math? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/32 "2012-10-24T12:59:37Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > When Israel becomes the 51st state (sorry, Puerto Rico!), what’ll be their license plate slogan? “Satan’s Birthplace”? Dunno, but our Hi-Tech area gets dibs on the name “Silicon Wadi” ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/33 "2012-10-24T13:23:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Better solution: Why not have the US become part of Israel? They seem to have their act together more than we do. This is not as funny as it once was. Though it’s funny to think of the consternation the discussion would cause in some folks. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/34 "2012-10-24T13:35:02Z")
I always thought Iraq should be the 51st state, on the “You break it, you buy it” principle. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/35 "2012-10-24T13:44:29Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > I always thought Iraq should be the 51st state, on the “You break it, you buy it” principle. Actually, I would like for (Asian) Georgia to apply for statehood. The confusion hijinx would surpass anything ever supplied by the two Washingtons! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/36 "2012-10-24T13:52:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Why not declare Israel the 51st state? You don’t have a clue how states join the Union, do you? 😛 Hopefully, it wasn’t a serious assertion on your part, and you were just spewing it out for effect. > [@](#): > > Being civilized and intelligent should have made it difficult for Americans to believe that America’s security is somehow dependent on Israel’s security. America’s security doesn’t depend on Israel’s security though. Some of America’s INTERESTS depend on Israel’s SUPPORT in a region that is vital to our national interest, but we aren’t dependent on them for our security. Now that we’ve cleaned that up, do you have any more bizzare and ignorant assertions to make, because this is pretty fun!! > [@](#): > > It would be much easier if the two countries decided to have a church marriage - make it official. Ah, see, now there is your problem. You think that countries are like a man and woman getting married. Most people would never conceive of such a strange analogy. Instead, think of a country being like a raven… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/37 "2012-10-24T13:53:52Z")
> [@Noone\_Special](#): > > Actually, I would like for (Asian) Georgia to apply for statehood. The confusion hijinx would surpass anything ever supplied by the two Washingtons! 😃 Plus, it would satisfy people who want more Caucasians in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/38 "2012-10-24T14:05:48Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > I think Matt Yglesias tweeted or re-tweeted that in the final debate _Israel: 22 mentions. Japan, Europe, India: 0._ I remember wondering what had happened to the rest of the world during that debate. Thanks for reminding me to [start a thread about it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15623598#post15623598). ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/39 "2012-10-24T14:26:23Z")
> [@Noone\_Special](#): > > Well, the combined population of the US and Israel is roughly 320,000,000. Divided by 540 (two more senators, dontchano!! :)) that gives just short of 600,000 people per Electoral Vote. So, my back-of-the-envelope calculation leads me to assume that Israel, with a population of almost exactly 8,000,000, would have very close to 13.5 electoral votes. So it would be either 13 or 14 depending on the exact method of calculation > > I leave it as an exercise for _other_ readers to determine which states those 11 or 12 electors (=representatives) would have to come from. > > This is the Dope, you didn’t think somebody would do the math? 😛 Actually, the apportionment by population is for the 435 _Representatives_, not for the \*\*_grand total \*\*\* of Electoral Votes, which are assigned by adding the variable number of Reps plus the fixed number of Senators. So instead what you need to compute is total population divided by the statutory number of 435 Representatives. That would give you at least(_) 735K inhabitants per Congressional District, which would mean Israel would get at most, if rounding up, 11 Congressional Districts plus 2 Senators = 13 EV’s, or if rounding down, 10+2 . (\*Since underpopulated states are guaranteed at least one Representative, that means the total seats available to make for multi-district states are slightly fewer than the absolute result of the division, and the thresholds for apportioning additional members would be slightly higher) ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/40 "2012-10-24T14:31:17Z")
Why the 51st state? I would happily trade Florida, Kansas and Arizona for Isreal. I might even throw in Alabama and Mississippi to sweeten the pot! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695.md?page=3)