# Why not declare Israel the 51st state? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 24, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695 "2012-10-24T03:26:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/41 "2012-10-24T14:35:46Z")
Actually, I think it would really shake things up in an interesting way if Congress declared unilaterally that Israel was now part of the US, without their consent. Just for fun. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/42 "2012-10-24T14:50:27Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Actually, the apportionment by population is for the 435 _Representatives_, not for the \*\*_grand total \*\*\* of Electoral Votes, which are assigned by adding the variable number of Reps plus the fixed number of Senators. So instead what you need to compute is total population divided by the statutory number of 435 Representatives. That would give you at least(_) 735K inhabitants per Congressional District, which would mean Israel would get at most, if rounding up, 11 Congressional Districts plus 2 Senators = 13 EV’s, or if rounding down, 10+2 . > > (\*Since underpopulated states are guaranteed at least one Representative, that means the total seats available to make for multi-district states are slightly fewer than the absolute result of the division, and the thresholds for apportioning additional members would be slightly higher) Yeah, OK, 13 it is. At least I think I got the part about the Electoral College growing to 540 (and the Senate to 102) right… Right? 🙂 Oh, and to answer whoever asked about the State License Plates, I’d go with “Old New Land” (look it up) ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/43 "2012-10-24T15:47:56Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Actually, I think it would really shake things up in an interesting way if Congress declared unilaterally that Israel was now part of the US, without their consent. Just for fun. Well, if AIPAC instructed them to do so, they just might do that. Until then, it’s safe to say that Congress will not do it; not even for fun. On a related note, if there is one country that needs to be dismantled for the benefit of, 1st Muslims around the World and then World itself, it is Saudi Arabia. I beleive - therefore, no cite - that that would solve much more problems than resolving Israel-Palestine conflict. However, I might be wrong… ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/44 "2012-10-24T16:40:42Z")
Now if we declared _every_ country a state one wonders whether the first-past-the-post electoral scheme will still result in a two-party system :). ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/45 "2012-10-24T16:43:50Z")
I bet the Chinese would skew the party system a lot…we might end up with a Communist party as one of the big two!! 😛 Happily the Europeans would simply give us a ton of new third parties that we could safely ignore. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/46 "2012-10-24T17:12:57Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > From a practical standpoint, the sudden enfranchisement of 8 million new citizens, almost all of whom are non-Caucasian and non-Christian, would throw off the politial status quo. Oh, I’m sure with the right “voter fraud” precautions we could shave off at least a quarter of that number. The trick is making sure we only disenfranchise the ones who vote the wrong way. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/47 "2012-10-24T17:44:40Z")
> [@XT](#): > > You don’t have a clue how states join the Union, do you? You can enter anytime you like, but you can never leave. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/48 "2012-10-24T18:14:44Z")
No, they can’t be a state. The 6th borough of NYC? Sure! ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/49 "2012-10-24T18:58:10Z")
> [@The\_Sheikh](#): > > The question is why? What keeps these elements alive? Religion? Or is it that they don’t like being given the choice to determine their own destiny (democracy)? Or because they are thirsty for Jews’ blood and you are holding them back? Pretty easy question there, You have a huge disparity in income in those countries and the elite uses hatred of Israel and things like that YouTube video to keep the hoi polloi from looking at what is happening internally. Kinda like the Republicans. Let’s assume for a moment that Israel is totally unjustified, a true travesty, never should have happened. But if Palestinians just accepted Israel and negotiated to get some of their land back they could set up great homeland for themselves. America would pour billions in to the country to make it stable and peaceful, as would other countries. But that does not meet the needs of the Saudis or others who sit on great wealth and power and need a bogeyman to distract the minions. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/50 "2012-10-24T19:03:09Z")
> [@The\_Sheikh](#): > > Why not declare Israel the 51st state? You cannot. I already declared the USA a province of Denmark. However offering NATO membership to Israel would be worth considering. It could ease some of the stress of the region if Israelis thought that they did not have to go at it alone, and possible move future Arab aggressors to reconsider. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/51 "2012-10-24T19:39:21Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You can enter anytime you like, but you can never leave. > > 🙂 Sadly, when you usually start smelling the colitas you usually have the police knocking on your door. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/52 "2012-10-24T19:48:00Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Sadly, when you usually start smelling the colitas you usually have the police knocking on your door. :eek: We are mixing our metaphors or something here. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/53 "2012-10-24T19:51:46Z")
Definitely…that’s what makes it so fun. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/54 "2012-10-24T19:52:09Z")
I had an idea during the debate, and it’s on the same order as the OP (and the above NATO suggestion), so: Suppose the EU admitted both Israel and Palestine as full members - Eurozone, Schengen Agreement, the works. Such a move would weaken the Euro. It’s already well off its highs but you could probably find an argument that more is needed. I could see Israel agreeing to lose a bit of metaphorical ground against Palestine in exchange for the security of EU (and/or NATO) membership, i.e., some good old fashioned horse trading about settlements and border controls. I’d expect a lot of fighting around the religious and citizenship rules of both members. And, I can imagine most of Europe being in a tizzy at Palestinians (and Israelis, it is Europe) getting to travel freely all over the continent. Can anyone put up a good reason why not? I know I’m not a lone nut here - Berlusconi said he would admit Israel too. So there are other nuts out there. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/55 "2012-10-24T20:22:49Z")
> [@drew870mitchell](#): > > I know I’m not a lone nut here - Berlusconi said he would admit Israel too. So there are other nuts out there. Hey, give Berlusconi a break. He’s not nuts - he’s just overly influenced by watching an _Israeli Army Girls Gone Wild_ video. It got him all worked up. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/56 "2012-10-24T20:25:46Z")
> [@drew870mitchell](#): > > Can anyone put up a good reason why not? I know I’m not a lone nut here - Berlusconi said he would admit Israel too. So there are other nuts out there. Berlusconi had probably seen a hot Israeli babe somewhere but why should the EU be settled with the Palestinians? Of what benefit will they be to us? What have they to offer us? How will they enrich our lives? Besides it’s called the European Union for a reason. If Palestine or Israel were to become members of the EU, they should accept the reestablishment of The Kingdom of Jerusalem and the other glorious crusader states of the Outremer. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/57 "2012-10-24T21:19:56Z")
Hey, let’s do PCs versus console games again! ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/58 "2012-10-24T22:00:51Z")
I support PCs joining the EU, but not consoles! ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/59 "2012-10-24T22:53:04Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Besides it’s called the European Union for a reason. Ever heard of a little thing called the Eurovision Song Contest? Israel have even hosted that mofo. Case closed. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695/60 "2012-10-24T22:56:10Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Besides it’s called the European Union for a reason. If Palestine or Israel were to become members of the EU, they should accept the reestablishment of The Kingdom of Jerusalem and the other glorious crusader states of the Outremer. Is that why Iceland isn’t allowed to join? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-declare-israel-the-51st-state/638695.md?page=4)